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Subject: If Puerto Rico and Blood Had a baby ... rss

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Derrick Hibbler
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So, after watching the game play video and reading over what's out there. I really get a sense of Puerto Rico (The game that brought me into this hobby) and Blood Rage (One of my favorite games at the moment). While Rising Sun doesn't appear to be exactly either of these games, to me it does have some similarities. I for one am excited about that and also feel that it might help gamers who might not be into other games or as some of my friends do not enjoy learning new games, potentially give this one a try. Has anyone had that sense?
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Mark Iradian
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This game attracts more than Blood Rage because you don't need to have any sort of "pre-game knowledge"

One of the biggest issues with Blood Rage is you need to know all of the cards to play even at a mediocre level. I've seen games won by a landslide because a newbie player was giving "good" cards to a veteran player that worked well with their clan's strategy, thus handing them the victory without even realizing it.

Rising Sun fixes this problem because every piece of information is out there in the open for the player. The only hidden piece of information is what Political Mandates a player has in their hand and the auction during battle.

My only main concern is the potential AP problem because of the order of battle in the provinces.
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Richard Sampson
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I think it is more like Puerto Rico and Rex/Dune had a baby. I don't really get any sense of Blood Rage beyond the continuation of the mythology theme.
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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ras2124 wrote:
I don't really get any sense of Blood Rage beyond the continuation of the mythology theme.

Well .. I do. Although the mechanics are slightly different, a lot stays the same as in BR.
I daresay it will be more like a spiritual sister of BR than anything else.
 
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Richard Sampson
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Teowulff wrote:
ras2124 wrote:
I don't really get any sense of Blood Rage beyond the continuation of the mythology theme.

Well .. I do. Although the mechanics are slightly different, a lot stays the same as in BR.
I daresay it will be more like a spiritual sister of BR than anything else.
To me it has as much in common with Blood Rage as it does with Cyclades. (In fact with the way money works and the competing for gods thing, it seems MORE in common with Cyclades.)

Once you get past the dudes on the map and monsters for hire bit (something that many games have), I don't see anything thing in common between them. On the other hand, the secret bidding of combat and alliance building is straight out of Rex/Dune.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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ras2124 wrote:
To me it has as much in common with Blood Rage as it does with Cyclades.

Similarities in mechanics between BR and RS:

a) You play during 3 ages/seasons and then you count your points
b) You discard cards/coins when the next phase starts
c) Very little areas for the number of players (average of 8 with 5 players)
d) You have 3 kinds of human units (leader, holy man, foot soldiers)
e) You can recruit monsters, which ones is determined by the season/age
f) Available upgrades get stronger with each age/season
g) You fight by revealing extra options like battle cards or coins/Ronin
h) The winner loses his battle cards/coins; the loser usually ends up better resource wise
i) You can actually win by losing (seppuku, poets = Loki) or score very low on the honor track (Oni)
j) Dying or losing units doesn't matter so much, as re-invading isn't that difficult
k) You can invade anywhere on the map, not just your own provinces
l) Territory is almost impossible to control; one turn you can have province A en B and in the next E and F
m) You get rewards for occupying a province per age/season (quests/endgame reward)
n) You can only move 1 province

Tell me .. which other game has this?
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Richard Sampson
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Teowulff wrote:
ras2124 wrote:
To me it has as much in common with Blood Rage as it does with Cyclades.

Similarities in mechanics between BR and RS:

a) You play during 3 ages/seasons and then you count your points
b) You discard cards/coins when the next phase starts
c) Very little areas for the number of players (average of 8 with 5 players)
d) You have 3 kinds of human units (leader, holy man, foot soldiers)
e) You can recruit monsters, which ones is determined by the season/age
f) Available upgrades get stronger with each age/season
g) You fight by revealing extra options like battle cards or coins/Ronin
h) The winner loses his battle cards/coins; the loser usually ends up better resource wise
i) You can actually win by losing (seppuku, poets = Loki) or score very low on the honor track (Oni)
j) Dying or losing units doesn't matter so much, as re-invading isn't that difficult
k) You can invade anywhere on the map, not just your own provinces
l) Territory is almost impossible to control; one turn you can have province A en B and in the next E and F
m) You get rewards for occupying a province per age/season (quests/endgame reward)
n) You can only move 1 province

Tell me .. which other game has this?
Sure, but all the things you list are pretty minor to the game. I mean things like 3 rounds, a refresh between rounds, 3 different kinds of units, etc. have very little to do with how the game plays or feels.

In Blood Rage the key mechanisms were the card draft, personal objectives via draft, shared objectives via pillaging/Ragnarok, and rage management, none of which seem to be present in Rising Sun. Instead we have limited action selection which provides benefits to other players (the Puerto Rico aspect) and we have blind bidding combat and an alliance building phase (the Rex/Dune aspect).

I am not saying there are not similarities between Blood Rage and Rising Sun, but I am saying I don't think they share core mechanics that are the main parts of the game.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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ras2124 wrote:
Sure, but all the things you list are pretty minor to the game. I mean things like 3 rounds, a refresh between rounds, 3 different kinds of units, etc. have very little to do with how the game plays or feels.

I can't really say since not have played it and for me personally, the gameplay video had quite a BR feeling. The chaos, everyone stacked on top of each other, unpredicability and huge end scores were quite reminiscent of BR games to me. Totally not like a RPG or classic strategy game.

So up close (small mechanics) and from a distance (3 turns, chaos, point hauls) they're quite similar.
In the middle is where the main differences lie, I think.
 
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A J
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I'd say if Puerto Rico and Blood Rage adopted and raised Diplomacy's baby...laugh
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Becq
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ras2124 wrote:
Sure, but all the things you list are pretty minor to the game. I mean things like 3 rounds, a refresh between rounds, 3 different kinds of units, etc. have very little to do with how the game plays or feels.

In Blood Rage the key mechanisms were the card draft, personal objectives via draft, shared objectives via pillaging/Ragnarok, and rage management, none of which seem to be present in Rising Sun. Instead we have limited action selection which provides benefits to other players (the Puerto Rico aspect) and we have blind bidding combat and an alliance building phase (the Rex/Dune aspect).

I am not saying there are not similarities between Blood Rage and Rising Sun, but I am saying I don't think they share core mechanics that are the main parts of the game.

While I agree that the two are definitely distinct games, I think there are more similarities than you give credit for:
* In BR, you draft actions (via the card draft), and RS has action-drafting, too, via mandate selection. A significant difference is that in BR, you front-load the action draft for the entire age, and have a few additional default actions that can be performed outside of the draft.
* Both games have objectives via card draft -- SR has a number of VP cards available in the season card sets.
* Both games do have shared objectives via area control (Both have 'similar' battle mechanics, winning battles produces VPs (in BR the scoring is immediate, in RS the VPs are scored at game end based on your victories over the course of the game)
* Rage management has been replaced by coins, which have a very different feel but serve a similar role.

The role following and alliance/betrayal options are significant differences, and there are definite implementation differences even among the mechanics that are otherwise similar. For example, both implement area control similarly (count up strength points to determine winner, losers are eliminated) but victory in BR is influenced by drafted battle cards, while in RS that function is replaced by the secret bid. Both have a 'Loki' mechanic.

I see Rising Sun as having a lot of core similarities with BR (far more so than with any other game that comes to mind), but with enough differences that it has a totally new feel.
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Patrick Reynolds
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Why Puerto Rico? Just because of the mandates that let everyone take an action? I'd use Twilight Imperium instead, since it borrows that one mechanic from PR but has much more in common with Rising Sun.
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Julian S
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Well... Rising Sun is actually the baby of Shogun and Cyclades (spiritually similar). It's just that Puerto Rico and Blood Rage adopted the baby (mechanically similar).
Dune is its grand-aunt that died when it went OOP.
Twilight Imperium is that obese uncle that visits once every 2 years and 8 hours each time.
 
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Zoltán Dudás
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Teowulff wrote:
ras2124 wrote:
To me it has as much in common with Blood Rage as it does with Cyclades.

Similarities in mechanics between BR and RS:

a) You play during 3 ages/seasons and then you count your points
b) You discard cards/coins when the next phase starts
c) Very little areas for the number of players (average of 8 with 5 players)
d) You have 3 kinds of human units (leader, holy man, foot soldiers)
e) You can recruit monsters, which ones is determined by the season/age
f) Available upgrades get stronger with each age/season
g) You fight by revealing extra options like battle cards or coins/Ronin
h) The winner loses his battle cards/coins; the loser usually ends up better resource wise
i) You can actually win by losing (seppuku, poets = Loki) or score very low on the honor track (Oni)
j) Dying or losing units doesn't matter so much, as re-invading isn't that difficult
k) You can invade anywhere on the map, not just your own provinces
l) Territory is almost impossible to control; one turn you can have province A en B and in the next E and F
m) You get rewards for occupying a province per age/season (quests/endgame reward)
n) You can only move 1 province

Tell me .. which other game has this?


Just leaving this here https://youtu.be/DmRFAArL1VE?t=445
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