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Subject: Coins in fight and size of the cards rss

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vagelis
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Hello guys! I saw the full gameplay video and i realize that in the battle all players said the number of coins and ronin they have.Is this mandatory?you can't play with hidden coins???
Do we know the size of the cards and the number of them?
 
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(PSN) SilentSniper_X_
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I'd assume coins are public info. From the game play video, there is no point where you get a secret amount of coins. So, unless you want everyone at your table with a pad of paper to keep an accounting of every player's coin gains and losses its best just to keep the information public. Then again, its your game so you can do as you please.
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Mikkel Østergaard
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Well, I assume that you can play with the amount of coins and ronin each player have as hidden information if you want to. When you say cards, do you mean season cards? They look standard size to me.
 
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Hard to say for sure without the rules.

But it can just be to be transparant for the video, I can also see it as a "Yup! I sure got a lot of coins for this upcoming fight~"
 
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A J
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It's not a memory game, so makes sense.
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Phil Schmidt
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The rulebook hasn't been published yet, but I'd assume that information is public to make the game more accessible. Hidden information fine for games when information was always hidden, but since you could keep track of someone's coins with effort, it's better to just remove the effort.

The game components list says 53 cards. One Stretch Goal is an additional 15 season cards. The 10 stretch goal monsters would also come with a card. So we are looking at a final count of 78+ cards.
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Mike Beiter
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Persomally, I like the idea of keeping coins and ronin secret behind the screen.

So many games have money and other items given publicly, but then they are hidden or turned face down from other players going forward.

I like the idea of figuring out how much your foe has behind their screen, it adds a whole new level of bluffing.

"Dont attack me, I've got 15+ ronin and coins and will crush you!"
"Hello ally, may I borrow 2 coins as I am all out?"

Or you can spend next to no resources one fight and say...
"Well, that's all I had... guess I'm a sitting duck next fight."
Then WHAM pull put a win with all the resources you held back.

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vagelis
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MajaiofDreams wrote:
Persomally, I like the idea of keeping coins and ronin secret behind the screen.

So many games have money and other items given publicly, but then they are hidden or turned face down from other players going forward.

I like the idea of figuring out how much your foe has behind their screen, it adds a whole new level of bluffing.

"Dont attack me, I've got 15+ ronin and coins and will crush you!"
"Hello ally, may I borrow 2 coins as I am all out?"

Or you can spend next to no resources one fight and say...
"Well, that's all I had... guess I'm a sitting duck next fight."
Then WHAM pull put a win with all the resources you held back.

i agree with you.It's a way much much better with hidden coins and i think thats the best way to play it.you can make some bluffing or to threat the others......ok someone can hold notes but none in my group does that!!!
 
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Michael Shinall
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Coin and Ronin are public knowledge at all times. You never gain anything in secret and punishing players for not keeping a notepad of what everyone else has is not part of the design.
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Michael Shinall wrote:
Coin and Ronin are public knowledge at all times. You never gain anything in secret and punishing players for not keeping a notepad of what everyone else has is not part of the design.

I agree with this design choice. I don't really see how keeping notes adds to the gameplay enjoyment.
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Blake Bush
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Definitely agree with the design choice of making that info pjblic at all times. It's completely trackable so there isn't a good reason to make it hidden. And I definitely disagree that making it hidden would enhance game play in any form.
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Mike Beiter
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Michael Shinall wrote:
Coin and Ronin are public knowledge at all times. You never gain anything in secret and punishing players for not keeping a notepad of what everyone else has is not part of the design.


It's not about gaining in secret. It is keeping it secret once gained.
So we will see you gain your X coins, but it is on the players to remember that.

Was the design choice simply because the designer did not want the bluffing element in the gane?
Or is it because having resources kept secret once publicly gained will break/unbalance it?

If it is merely just a design choice, then I can see hidden resources once gained becomming a popular variant among some players.
 
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Miguel Salas
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Dracilic wrote:
...And I definitely disagree that making it hidden would enhance game play in any form.


+1

Tried playing A Game of Thrones: The Board Game (Second Edition) a couple times hiding power tokens and it's a mess and much less fun.
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The video I saw said that you can neither hide your coins or force another player to tell you how many they have. So you can make a counting error due to eyesight and poor accounting. I find this acceptable.
 
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(PSN) SilentSniper_X_
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If we played hidden in our group, all it would mean is that every player would have a notepad and would be tracking your gold like an accountant just like my magic days when you kept track of both players life totals. And then what happens when inevitability someone writes down a wrong number? Now you have an argument of how much gold/ronin you should have.

And no you can't bluff things. Any bluff you manage to pull off just means that your opponent wasn't paying attention to the game. You could argue that you just won't allow notepads to record information. However, then you change the game into who can better remember numbers and figures.
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I think the best solution is to know which solution makes the most fun and least stress for your group. If you are worried about accounting then it sounds like part of the issue is trusting the honesty and or integrity of other players.

This is not a great place to start from, but if this is the case, then I would agree that some kind of accounting and openness of resources is needed.
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(PSN) SilentSniper_X_
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Benesephiir wrote:
I think the best solution is to know which solution makes the most fun and least stress for your group. If you are worried about accounting then it sounds like part of the issue is trusting the honesty and or integrity of other players.

This is not a great place to start from, but if this is the case, then I would agree that some kind of accounting and openness of resources is needed.


Its not about not trusting the honesty and or integrity. Its about the player not having the memory to keep track of everyone's coins and ronin. If you don't keep it secret, there isn't an issue. If you do keep it secret, everyone becomes compelled to keep a running tally of everyone's coins and ronin just so you know exactly what they can possibly throw at you in battle.

This is why we don't keep stocks hidden information in Acquire. We tried it secret once and the game got heavily bogged down with everyone keeping notes on who had what and how much.
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Mike Beiter
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JRosen9 wrote:
If we played hidden in our group, all it would mean is that every player would have a notepad and would be tracking your gold like an accountant just like my magic days when you kept track of both players life totals. And then what happens when inevitability someone writes down a wrong number? Now you have an argument of how much gold/ronin you should have.

And no you can't bluff things. Any bluff you manage to pull off just means that your opponent wasn't paying attention to the game. You could argue that you just won't allow notepads to record information. However, then you change the game into who can better remember numbers and figures.


I am just curious, is it just this game that would inspire the notepad? Or do your players do this in any game where gained resources are hidden?

There are sooooo many games out there that what you earn is publicly gained but privately held.
And in any of those games, a notepad is against the spirit.

I think it just comes down to: Do you like the bluffing element?

If yes. Keep stuff hidden, if it would lessen your experience, make it public.

Going back to the war game mentality. In war it's all about hidden knowledge. It does not make sense to me for opposing generals to meet before a battle and tell their opponent the exact number of troops they are bringing. It just feels off.

Speaking for my group, we LOVE the bluffing mechanic. If you give us a screen, we're going to keep stuff hidden. So as long as this does not break the game, we will be all about a hidden resource variant.

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(PSN) SilentSniper_X_
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MajaiofDreams wrote:

I am just curious, is it just this game that would inspire the notepad? Or do your players do this in any game where gained resources are hidden?

There are sooooo many games out there that what you earn is publicly gained but privately held.
And in any of those games, a notepad is against the spirit.

I think it just comes down to: Do you like the bluffing element?

If yes. Keep stuff hidden, if it would lessen your experience, make it public.

Going back to the war game mentality. In war it's all about hidden knowledge. It does not make sense to me for opposing generals to meet before a battle and tell their opponent the exact number of troops they are bringing. It just feels off.

Speaking for my group, we LOVE the bluffing mechanic. If you give us a screen, we're going to keep stuff hidden. So as long as this does not break the game, we will be all about a hidden resource variant.


I'm not sure of any game we play where resources gained is public knowledge but the amount of resources you currently have is private. The issue is if you have a game like that, and you don't allow notes, it puts an unfair advantage on the person with the better memory. In my group that person is me. I can easily and quickly memorize numerical figures, so no one is going to be able to bluff me as I'll be able to tell them what they have at any point in time so why should I have an unfair advantage over other players just because I excel in one area that has nothing to do with the game?

BTW, we love games with bluffing mechanics where they make sense and are not just a skill of one players memory. Two of our favorite games are BSG and Coup which both require a lot of bluffing.
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JRosen9 wrote:
Benesephiir wrote:
I think the best solution is to know which solution makes the most fun and least stress for your group. If you are worried about accounting then it sounds like part of the issue is trusting the honesty and or integrity of other players.

This is not a great place to start from, but if this is the case, then I would agree that some kind of accounting and openness of resources is needed.


Its not about not trusting the honesty and or integrity. Its about the player not having the memory to keep track of everyone's coins and ronin. If you don't keep it secret, there isn't an issue. If you do keep it secret, everyone becomes compelled to keep a running tally of everyone's coins and ronin just so you know exactly what they can possibly throw at you in battle.

This is why we don't keep stocks hidden information in Acquire. We tried it secret once and the game got heavily bogged down with everyone keeping notes on who had what and how much.


If your group feels you need to keep close track of everyone's resources in order to play, that seems like a good choice.

Some groups care less about making mistakes based on not remembering correctly. It's probably more of a relaxed vs competitive choice.
 
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Mike Beiter
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JRosen9 wrote:
MajaiofDreams wrote:

I am just curious, is it just this game that would inspire the notepad? Or do your players do this in any game where gained resources are hidden?

There are sooooo many games out there that what you earn is publicly gained but privately held.
And in any of those games, a notepad is against the spirit.

I think it just comes down to: Do you like the bluffing element?

If yes. Keep stuff hidden, if it would lessen your experience, make it public.

Going back to the war game mentality. In war it's all about hidden knowledge. It does not make sense to me for opposing generals to meet before a battle and tell their opponent the exact number of troops they are bringing. It just feels off.

Speaking for my group, we LOVE the bluffing mechanic. If you give us a screen, we're going to keep stuff hidden. So as long as this does not break the game, we will be all about a hidden resource variant.


I'm not sure of any game we play where resources gained is public knowledge but the amount of resources you currently have is private. The issue is if you have a game like that, and you don't allow notes, it puts an unfair advantage on the person with the better memory. In my group that person is me. I can easily and quickly memorize numerical figures, so no one is going to be able to bluff me as I'll be able to tell them what they have at any point in time so why should I have an unfair advantage over other players just because I excel in one area that has nothing to do with the game?

BTW, we love games with bluffing mechanics where they make sense and are not just a skill of one players memory. Two of our favorite games are BSG and Coup which both require a lot of bluffing.


I get ya. It is true that if someone is way better at memorizing those details, they will have an advantage.

Some games my group plays that the points or some resources aren't public knowledge are Nightfall, Lords of Xidit, Modern Art, Dice City,

Players see the money, wounds, VP accumulate, but they don't have access to the total until games end.
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Blake Bush
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Any game where the hidden info is known at some point and is trackable we just make public. There really isn't a good reason in my eyes to keep it hidden and it removes unnecessary effort. It's not a memory game.

The best example I can think of is Five Tribes. It's known how much you start out with and any time you spend or gain coins it is public. We just make it open information. Keeping it hidden does not enhance gameplay.
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