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Subject: Can anyone see why this might break the game? rss

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Dimhalo
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We have a party of 6

There are only 4 items available to buy of most items.

I know separate parties can buy items that other parties are not using.

But we are a party of 6, with only ever 4 at one time playing.

If 4 of us all buy a stamina potion and we make another 2 stamina potions available in the market for the remaining 2 in our party to buy, can anyone see if that would create an imbalance/problem?

There will only ever be 4 players playing a scenario, so this just ensures that everyone has a chance to buy an item.

Off the top of my head it seems fine, but wanted to check.
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Daniel Berg
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If you are going by the rules, you would have to sell the potions for half price and then buy them back at full price (adjusted for reputation) to be able to make them available for other party members. They are intended to be limited, and if you just pass them around, you are making it easier than intended.
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Erik Burigo
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I think this game has enough negative feedback loops to make it very robust to slight pushes in power or versatility here and there.
I am in a similar situation (party of 6, but up to 5 people simultaneously), if was less lazy I'd have another pair of extra copies of Stamina Potion printed just in case, and I think that won't break the game in any way.
In your case, it's even less of a problem seeing that you never bring more than 4 in the same scenario.
 
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Daniel Berg
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I agree, this isn't going to break the game in any way. If you're fine with bending the rules a little and it makes your game more enjoyable, go for it. Then again, while stamina potions are really really useful, they're far from mandatory for most classes. Get creative!
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soak man
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yeah, I mean you CAN do this (not according to the rules), but in my mind, having a party filled with 1 of every class gives you way more flexibility. If you have a party of 6 because there are 6 of you playing, it is slightly different than if you have 2 people playing who made 3 characters each. In the first situation, you won't have a lot of control over the party makeup (it depends on who is available to play). In the second example, you can tailor your party to match a scenario's goal. Need more support? Take the Tinkerer... etc etc.


All classes are able to function without any items, the fact that one of the best cheap items is unavailable doesn't make your gold useless. You can buy another item with that gold. Or get blessed at the sanctuary. There are other items with less copies in the game, and you're going to have problems 'sharing' those as well. I don't think it's a great precedent to set, because how will you know who gets dibs on an item with only 1 copy when it lands in the shop later?

I personally would play how it is intended (thus forcing people to develop different strategies), but it won't break anything.

Thematically though, your party is a bunch of mercenaries out for their own aims. You trust each other enough to not stab each other in the back, but that's really it. You don't share your loot. You aren't intended to be 'friends.' I doubt someone in your group would let you 'borrow' their stash of potions without owing a favor or some gold or something.
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Dimhalo
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I guess I was focused on the items that have 4 available, but I suppose with items where there are only 2, we just have to make those open to everyone. Hmmmm but still that same issue I guess where the 2 not present for 3 scenarios might 'miss out' because the others bought those 2. Cant really make another 2 available because that WOULD be over powered if 4 people had an item of which there were only 2 copies.

Maybe another way of approaching it would be that all items are available to buy, but there is a cap on how many a group can take into a scenario depending on the number of cards in the game. You just have to decide who will take them into battle before the scenario starts.
 
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Kevin Greene
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I don't think it breaks the game at all if all party members are buying the potions. There are some more expensive items I might be more hesitant to do this with, where there are only one or two copies of the item in the deck, but with cheap and plentiful items you should be fine.
 
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rnickster86 wrote:
I guess I was focused on the items that have 4 available, but I suppose with items where there are only 2, we just have to make those open to everyone. Hmmmm but still that same issue I guess where the 2 not present for 3 scenarios might 'miss out' because the others bought those 2. Cant really make another 2 available because that WOULD be over powered if 4 people had an item of which there were only 2 copies.

Maybe another way of approaching it would be that all items are available to buy, but there is a cap on how many a group can take into a scenario depending on the number of cards in the game. You just have to decide who will take them into battle before the scenario starts.


This could get messy as there are career goals that require you to own a certain number and type of items. Simply being able to swap them around would also have effects on these goals.
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Dimhalo
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soakman wrote:
yeah, [b]

Thematically though, your party is a bunch of mercenaries out for their own aims. You trust each other enough to not stab each other in the back, but that's really it. You don't share your loot. You aren't intended to be 'friends.' I doubt someone in your group would let you 'borrow' their stash of potions without owing a favor or some gold or something.


Good point. Maybe we will just play it as intended. Once they are gone, they are gone.

I gain an unfair advantage on this though because I will always be in the group (owner of the game) so I will always have first dibs on items.

What do people do then when there is only 1 item and more than 1 person wants it? Just discuss amongst each other why it would be good for them? Auction?
 
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Daniel Berg
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rnickster86 wrote:
What do people do then when there is only 1 item and more than 1 person wants it? Just discuss amongst each other why it would be good for them? Auction?

Auctioning doesn't really work, with not trading allowed. You'll pretty much have to find a consensus, or devise some kind of priority system.
Just.. don't ever roll dice to settle things. Just don't.
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rnickster86 wrote:
soakman wrote:
yeah,

Thematically though, your party is a bunch of mercenaries out for their own aims. You trust each other enough to not stab each other in the back, but that's really it. You don't share your loot. You aren't intended to be 'friends.' I doubt someone in your group would let you 'borrow' their stash of potions without owing a favor or some gold or something.


Good point. Maybe we will just play it as intended. Once they are gone, they are gone.

I gain an unfair advantage on this though because I will always be in the group (owner of the game) so I will always have first dibs on items.

What do people do then when there is only 1 item and more than 1 person wants it? Just discuss amongst each other why it would be good for them? Auction?


That's up to the group. Some people flip coins or play paper/rock/scissors. Some people do a roll-off. I like to theme it in some way, like, perhaps, make a contest of some sort out of it.

Arm wrestling might not be a thing for all groups, but you could have a game of wits, or decide whoever tells the best dirty joke gets it. Or maybe even play a game of darts (if you have a dart board).

Depends on how competitive your group is or how you like to play. You can always just try to convince the group that the item is better for everyone if it is in your hands.

Either way, I think you could have 'unlimited' starting potions if you really wanted to without ruining the game (though I wouldn't). On the other hand, I wouldn't mess with the other items though at the very least. And make sure you write down which potions you have if there is an unlimited supply.

EDIT: As Daniel said above, don't use trading or swapping gold etc because that could break some goals and it isn't permitted according to the rules.
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Luke
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Doing this for the potions would be fine. No imbalance whatsoever.

There are only two of most items. There are four of each potion because the intent is that the whole party can have them.

Doing this for items of which there are only two or one(which is most items) might lead to balance issues.
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Luke
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Garou wrote:
They are intended to be limited, and if you just pass them around, you are making it easier than intended.


I believe there are four because the design intent is that everyone in a party gets one.

Page 43, Items owned by unused characters are considered to be in the city supply.

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Noel Szczepanski
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rnickster86 wrote:
We have a party of 6

There are only 4 items available to buy of most items.

I know separate parties can buy items that other parties are not using.

But we are a party of 6, with only ever 4 at one time playing.

If 4 of us all buy a stamina potion and we make another 2 stamina potions available in the market for the remaining 2 in our party to buy, can anyone see if that would create an imbalance/problem?

There will only ever be 4 players playing a scenario, so this just ensures that everyone has a chance to buy an item.

Off the top of my head it seems fine, but wanted to check.


I would not limit the potions as they are intended to be available 1 per player.
 
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Paul Grogan
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There is no such thing as a party of six
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Noel Szczepanski
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Also a fair house rule would be to increase the supply of all items by 50% and round down but limit the number that can be taken into a scenario to the number that are generally in the supply.
 
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PaulGrogan wrote:
There is no such thing as a party of six


You can have as many characters in a party as you want. Only 4 can go into a scenario at a give time though.
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mournful wrote:
Garou wrote:
They are intended to be limited, and if you just pass them around, you are making it easier than intended.


I believe there are four because the design intent is that everyone in a party gets one.

Page 43, Items owned by unused characters are considered to be in the city supply.



Problem solved. End of thread.
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Craig Sawatzky
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Dynalange129 wrote:
mournful wrote:
Garou wrote:
They are intended to be limited, and if you just pass them around, you are making it easier than intended.


I believe there are four because the design intent is that everyone in a party gets one.

Page 43, Items owned by unused characters are considered to be in the city supply.



Problem solved. End of thread.


My interpretation would say that the rules are talking about completely different play groups not different characters of the same party. Maybe I'm reading it too often now but I think that is the intent. Different campaigns have equal access to everything in the store, but each campaign is limited to what is in "stock".
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Luke
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crogstad wrote:
Dynalange129 wrote:
mournful wrote:
Garou wrote:
They are intended to be limited, and if you just pass them around, you are making it easier than intended.


I believe there are four because the design intent is that everyone in a party gets one.

Page 43, Items owned by unused characters are considered to be in the city supply.



Problem solved. End of thread.


My interpretation would say that the rules are talking about completely different play groups not different characters of the same party. Maybe I'm reading it too often now but I think that is the intent. Different campaigns have equal access to everything in the store, but each campaign is limited to what is in "stock".


I'm fairly certain there's a post about this somewhere.

In the meantime, unused is unused. A lot of Isaac's rule answers come down to "the word I wrote is the word I meant."

Edit: I asked this on the FAQ just now. Awaiting answer to clear it up.
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Noel Szczepanski
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Dynalange129 wrote:
mournful wrote:
Garou wrote:
They are intended to be limited, and if you just pass them around, you are making it easier than intended.


I believe there are four because the design intent is that everyone in a party gets one.

Page 43, Items owned by unused characters are considered to be in the city supply.



Problem solved. End of thread.


Unused doesn't mean inactive.

By your interpretation I could manipulate it so that four different characters all have a unique item by simply rotating the one character that purchased the item out of the party.
 
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Again, my only issue with this is that it seems very odd to have items limited to 2 if there can theoretically be unlimited so long as they aren't in use.

This is likely never going to affect me as my party is limited to 4 at the moment, but I find it very odd that if two of us come back from a scenario we can buy a copy of something that (absent) player number 3 is using if there are no copies in the store.

The reason is that I'm not sure what happens if that person and the previously absent player number 3 end up in a party together later. Does one of them have to forfeit their item for the scenario? Or do they just both permanently have it even though there is only 1 card to split between them?

Very weird imo.

 
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P0isson wrote:
Dynalange129 wrote:
mournful wrote:
Garou wrote:
They are intended to be limited, and if you just pass them around, you are making it easier than intended.


I believe there are four because the design intent is that everyone in a party gets one.

Page 43, Items owned by unused characters are considered to be in the city supply.



Problem solved. End of thread.


Unused doesn't mean inactive.

By your interpretation I could manipulate it so that four different characters all have a unique item by simply rotating the one character that purchased the item out of the party.


Yeah, I imagine 'unused' in this case means characters that were abandoned and won't be played again (otherwise you have the issue I mentioned above). But it's not very clear I guess.
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David Latimore
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rnickster86 wrote:
I guess I was focused on the items that have 4 available, but I suppose with items where there are only 2, we just have to make those open to everyone. Hmmmm but still that same issue I guess where the 2 not present for 3 scenarios might 'miss out' because the others bought those 2. Cant really make another 2 available because that WOULD be over powered if 4 people had an item of which there were only 2 copies.

Maybe another way of approaching it would be that all items are available to buy, but there is a cap on how many a group can take into a scenario depending on the number of cards in the game. You just have to decide who will take them into battle before the scenario starts.


The original question doesn't really break the game. This one starts to.

There are a lot of items. A ton. Just use different items.
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David Latimore
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mournful wrote:
Garou wrote:
They are intended to be limited, and if you just pass them around, you are making it easier than intended.


I believe there are four because the design intent is that everyone in a party gets one.

Page 43, Items owned by unused characters are considered to be in the city supply.



I think it's items from unused characters in other parties are considered to be in the supply.
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