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Subject: How does the legacy aspect work? rss

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Brian Jurney
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This game is said to be a Legacy game. The only other Legacy game I have played was Pandemic Legacy which, changes the board and would be difficult to replay the campaign afterwards. Additionally, it may not be as fun for someone to jump part way through (nor can you just simply start over with a new group). Is this game the same way or could you have two campaigns going at the same time with this game? What happens when the campaign is finished? Can you still play or can you start over?

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Kevin Greene
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While Gloomhaven is sometimes considered a legacy game because it has stickers, it's far less legacy than Pandemic.

In Gloomhaven, each session, you spend time at town, travel to a place, and do the dungeon crawl / tactical combat at that location.

Over the course of a campaign, you'll unlock new events in both the town and on the road, new items to purchase in the town, new characters to create, and new locations to travel.

The main legacy aspect comes with the stickers on the map, which is essentially a giant campaign tracking tool, simply there to show you how well your town is doing and what locations you've unlocked. If you want to replay a second time, you can easily just track this with pen and paper, or use https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/141842/gloomhaven-map

The other legacy aspect is that, after a certain point, you'll unlock the ability to purchase enhancements for cards, which take the form of stickers applied directly to the card. For example, you can apply a +1 to increase an attack from 3 to 4. This can easily be avoided with stickers, or also just left on as sort of an homage between plays. While they will make characters more powerful, they don't break the game.

And finally, a decent amount of content is hidden in envelopes that get unlocked over the course of play, including 11 classes (vs the 6 starting) and a few envelopes with additional cards. It's not too hard to repack these for a brand new campaign.

Two campaigns simultaneously would be pretty difficult from a bookkeeping standpoint. As I mentioned before, you unlock new events, items, characters, etc. Tracking the changes between simultaneous campaigns would be a pain, but you can easily have two parties in the same campaign. Additionally, if you're just worried about people joining partway through, I've had a few people sit in for a few sessions, and they enjoyed it immensely even though they weren't around for the start.

Also, when the campaign is finished, there are a few options. First, you can replay any scenarios you've already unlocked, or try out side quests you haven't completed, or try out scenarios whose paths you blocked (due to choices you made throughout the game). Or, you can perform a full reset, and try something new. Furthermore, there's already some fan content and free official content coming out. Between the fact that there's 200+ hours in the box already, and more being created all the time, I imagine you won't really want to restart everything.
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Brian Jurney
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Thanks for the detailed answer! My biggest concern with the game is that you really need the same people all the time to enjoy the campaign (similar to Pandemic Legacy) and that since there is so much, it would be difficult to dedicate that much time as a group.

It may just be one that I would play specifically with my wife and not worry about trying to get a group together every so often.
 
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Jon Pessano
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jurney85 wrote:
Thanks for the detailed answer! My biggest concern with the game is that you really need the same people all the time to enjoy the campaign (similar to Pandemic Legacy) and that since there is so much, it would be difficult to dedicate that much time as a group.

It may just be one that I would play specifically with my wife and not worry about trying to get a group together every so often.


That is exactly what I plan to do (play mostly with my wife) and might show it with some other friends on occasion.

My wife and I have to finish pandemic legacy before we start this game though (in Aug now).

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Paul Grogan
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jurney85 wrote:
Thanks for the detailed answer! My biggest concern with the game is that you really need the same people all the time to enjoy the campaign (similar to Pandemic Legacy) and that since there is so much, it would be difficult to dedicate that much time as a group.

It may just be one that I would play specifically with my wife and not worry about trying to get a group together every so often.


I dont think that is a concern. Each scenario is a self contained mini-game that you can play with anyone. Of course, there is the ongoing story, but each scenario can be treated as just a one-off. "What do we have to do this time?" "Protect this dude in reaching this space and finding the treasure" "- ok, lets go"
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Matthew Kameron
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I play heaps with people who aren't part of the core campaign. Not an issue at all. They just borrow somebody else's character for the session, and we try to play a side plot or something rather than the main plot so that the 'core' players don't miss out on too much plot.
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Damien
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I have come to the conclusion that I have no idea what legacy means and I suspect I am not alone.

I have seen people write that Gloomhaven isn't a legacy game it's just a campaign game. But I find myself very confused by this. If legacy means that there is a permanent alteration of the game rules or game state then it would seem that Gloomhaven qualifies. But I think what some people think is disqualifying is the ability to reset or the general dilution of the concept by the designer with talk of reset packs and the ability to play old scenarios.

To me it's the campaign itself that contributes to giving the game its legacy feel. Outside of RPG videogames, how many campaign games have you played where selecting one scenario path permanently removes others from play? If the scenarios had all come in envelopes, you would have a bunch of envelopes at the end of your campaign that you were told to destroy (but wimped out and didn't if you are anything like me). This doesn't seem so far removed from the conditional changes that occur in other legacy games (if x happens open box y). So is it really just the watered down physicality of the gams alterations that make people conclude the Gloomhaven isn't a legacy game?
 
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Wes Holland

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If I were asked to get technicaly, I'd define 'Legacy Game' as 'A game where the rules of play change over repeated play sessions.'

In that manner, Gloomhaven does *not* meet that definition. The unlockable classes still work with the base rulebook. You can modify the class ability cards, and add scenarios and achievements, but nothing fundamentally changes the rules of how the game works.

(Unlockable spoiler)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The only one that comes close to meeting this criteria is Envelope B,
so far. And even then, it doesn't really change a rule, so much as add an additional effect to an existing rule.
 
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Joseph Feliu
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Gloomhaven isn't really a legacy game in the sense that you need to alter the game to play. It has legacy elements (stickers on game board, removing cards, altering cards, etc) but those mechanics either are cosmetic only (stickers on board) or non-destructive (removing cards doesn't mean rip them up just take them out of the deck). For altering cards, one of the coolest aspects, what I do is sleeve all of my characters ability cards then apply the sticker to the sleeve. Simply remove the card from the sleeve and you are back at the base game state. Of course the sticker isn't reusable (not easily anyways) so you would need to go to your local office supply store and by blank small stickers to replace the consumed ones.

With that said I don't think it matters for most people outside of the resellablity of the game. If you are planning on buying it, playing it and then selling it you will run into problems. If you are going to keep the game then you really don't need to restart. The sheer amount of content means you aren't likely to finish it all anytime soon. In addition it is designed to allow you to continue to play when the main campaign is over. It also supports side play (start a second party and play in parallel with the main party). People dropping in and out isn't a big deal either.
 
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Aaron Velox
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kgreene2343 wrote:
The other legacy aspect is that, after a certain point, you'll unlock the ability to purchase enhancements for cards, which take the form of stickers applied directly to the card. For example, you can apply a +1 to increase an attack from 3 to 4. This can easily be avoided with stickers, or also just left on as sort of an homage between plays. While they will make characters more powerful, they don't break the game.


I'm a little confused by what you mean there. Wouldn't you want to avoid using the stickers? You would be permanently changing the card.
 
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John B
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StarryAqua wrote:
kgreene2343 wrote:
The other legacy aspect is that, after a certain point, you'll unlock the ability to purchase enhancements for cards, which take the form of stickers applied directly to the card. For example, you can apply a +1 to increase an attack from 3 to 4. This can easily be avoided with stickers, or also just left on as sort of an homage between plays. While they will make characters more powerful, they don't break the game.


I'm a little confused by what you mean there. Wouldn't you want to avoid using the stickers? You would be permanently changing the card.


I havent gotten far at all, but if you play with sleeved cards couldnt you apply the stickers to the sleeves?
 
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Aaron Velox
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johnb4bgg wrote:
I havent gotten far at all, but if you play with sleeved cards couldnt you apply the stickers to the sleeves?


That's what I was thinking. But you're still using the stickers; you'll eventually run out of them, right?

EDIT: Actually, I suppose that doesn't matter if you could replace the stickers with something else in a replay?
 
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Brian Jurney
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StarryAqua wrote:
johnb4bgg wrote:
I havent gotten far at all, but if you play with sleeved cards couldnt you apply the stickers to the sleeves?


That's what I was thinking. But you're still using the stickers; you'll eventually run out of them, right?

EDIT: Actually, I suppose that doesn't matter if you could replace the stickers with something else in a replay?


If you apply the stickers to the sleeves, than you can just swap out the sleeves with a new one when you replay and when you need the sticker, you just swap it back.
 
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