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Subject: Scoundrel Strategy rss

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Matt D
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I was reading the Mindthief Strategy thread and after seeing all the cool things the Mindthief could do it made me sad that I wasn't playing the Mindthief. With that said after playing the first two scenarios as the Scoundrel, I found myself lying in bed coming up with good combinations of cards to play in a specific order and I couldn't wait to try to put my ideas into play.

Let's start a similar thread discussing strategy, good cards, strengths and weaknesses, what you love doing and overall how awesome the Scoundrel is.

If anyone is interested, my current party is two players, Scoundrel and Mindthief.
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Matt D
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Just an FYI, there's some Scoundrel strategy discussions over here that you may find useful.
 
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Michael Wilbur
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I'm not sure if you have had your questions answered from the previous thread.

But I have retired a level 9 Scoundrel with all perks unlocked.
The scoundrel is an awesome class.

I think it was my 2nd favorite class so far out of the 6 (4 retired) I've played.

What would you like to know?

How does your dynamic work currently and how are you communicating with your mind-thief?
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Nat Edson
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One of my friends plays a scoundrel, and she did something really cool I didn't think of with an item you get in an early mission.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
She picked up the Ring of Skulls and used it to summon a skeleton to get the adjacency bonus off of her abilities.


It was awesome to watch, because I hadn't even thought of it. Totally nuked an earth demon the turn she did it.
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Matt D
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jindianajonz wrote:
Just an FYI, there's some Scoundrel strategy discussions over here that you may find useful.


I read through that thread and it felt mostly based on which cards to choose as you level up. The Mindthief thread had a bunch of things the class could do and had people talking about how much they liked the class. I was primarily hoping to draw some similar talk about the Scoundrel here.
 
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Matt D
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krovasteel wrote:
I'm not sure if you have had your questions answered from the previous thread.

But I have retired a level 9 Scoundrel with all perks unlocked.
The scoundrel is an awesome class.

I think it was my 2nd favorite class so far out of the 6 (4 retired) I've played.

What would you like to know?

How does your dynamic work currently and how are you communicating with your mind-thief?


That's pretty cool. What made you like it so much? My Mindthief and I are trying to figure out how to best play with each other. Most of the scoundrel cards have bonuses when enemies are near an ally, so we try to have her near enemies so I can knock them out quickly. However that seems to leave her health drastically moving up and down.

What were some of your more effective strategies with the Scoundrel and situations where you thought the class was really strong?
 
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Matt D
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Norphinkr21 wrote:
One of my friends plays a scoundrel, and she did something really cool I didn't think of with an item you get in an early mission.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
She picked up the Ring of Skulls and used it to summon a skeleton to get the adjacency bonus off of her abilities.


It was awesome to watch, because I hadn't even thought of it. Totally nuked an earth demon the turn she did it.


Haven't quite made it as far as you so I'm not familiar with the item, but are you referring to the bonus when an ally is near an enemy for the damage bonus on most scoundrel cards?

That seems pretty genius if I'm understanding you correctly.
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Wes Holland

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Gootch03 wrote:
Norphinkr21 wrote:
One of my friends plays a scoundrel, and she did something really cool I didn't think of with an item you get in an early mission.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
She picked up the Ring of Skulls and used it to summon a skeleton to get the adjacency bonus off of her abilities.


It was awesome to watch, because I hadn't even thought of it. Totally nuked an earth demon the turn she did it.


Haven't quite made it as far as you so I'm not familiar with the item, but are you referring to the bonus when an ally is near an enemy for the damage bonus on most scoundrel cards?

That seems pretty genius if I'm understanding you correctly.


Holy crap, that's brilliant. I've been trying to figure out how to get an adjacency bonus and yet not take crack-back damage from whatever I'm hitting since I invariably go faster than pretty much every other party member.
 
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Scott Sexton
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The Scoundrel is pretty straight forward. Make sure you give her the goggles, and a heater shield. There is a nice tier 2 armor that allows the scoundrel to hold a ton of items (which is much more powerful then it sounds). That paired with the tier 2 necklace allows you to spam your best card combos early in the scenario.
 
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scottatlaw wrote:
The Scoundrel is pretty straight forward. Make sure you give her the goggles, and a heater shield. There is a nice tier 2 armor that allows the scoundrel to hold a ton of items (which is much more powerful then it sounds). That paired with the tier 2 necklace allows you to spam your best card combos early in the scenario.


Why the heater shield? I find it has minimal effect completely and written it off. Though I've unlocked other hand items that are better. Plus I like the invisibility cloak get me out of a messy situation.
 
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Frank Pelkofer
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Dynalange129 wrote:
scottatlaw wrote:
The Scoundrel is pretty straight forward. Make sure you give her the goggles, and a heater shield. There is a nice tier 2 armor that allows the scoundrel to hold a ton of items (which is much more powerful then it sounds). That paired with the tier 2 necklace allows you to spam your best card combos early in the scenario.


Why the heater shield? I find it has minimal effect completely and written it off. Though I've unlocked other hand items that are better. Plus I like the invisibility cloak get me out of a messy situation.


I'm using the hide armor, which doesn't seem to get a lot of love. I removed 2 -1's from my deck, so it's effectively eliminated the armor penalty. If I fit in a long rest somewhere, it's soaking 4 points of damage for me. It seems better than the leather armor.

The invisibility cloaks were sold out when I had the cash. My mindthief has one and has used it plus her invisibility card to do the close in work with me. I was going to get the heater shield and poison dagger, but I ended up looting a 2 handed item from a side quest that I like better.
 
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Scott Sexton
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Dynalange129 wrote:
scottatlaw wrote:
The Scoundrel is pretty straight forward. Make sure you give her the goggles, and a heater shield. There is a nice tier 2 armor that allows the scoundrel to hold a ton of items (which is much more powerful then it sounds). That paired with the tier 2 necklace allows you to spam your best card combos early in the scenario.


Why the heater shield? I find it has minimal effect completely and written it off. Though I've unlocked other hand items that are better. Plus I like the invisibility cloak get me out of a messy situation.


Early game though you don't have a ton of good hand items. The heater shield is nice because you can't keep you invisibility up that effectively if you are pure DPS. I've completely ditched invisibility with my Scoundrel in fact. She also tends to have the lowest initiative number, so enemies tend to target her ahead of the Brute or Cragheart (her go to tanks). I am not a fan of any gear for this character that adds negative modifiers (since she is my DPS) so the hide armor is out. Instead, I gear her up with the cloak that allows for extra items. Stamina potion + the necklace from your level 2 shop is AMAZING for the Scoundrel. Use it to abuse your best combos in the first few rounds of a scenario. Not only does it allow you to completely dominate that opening room, but it gives your deck some serious staying power over the long haul of the scenario.
 
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Wes Holland

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(Spoiler tags for random/scenario specific items. For prosperity-locked items, I won't be spoiler tagging unless someone asks me to.)

I've got four small items on my level 3 Scoundrel. One of them was looted from a scenario, another is a random item design, and the other two are Stamina Potion and a design from a scenario.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
In order;
Helix Ring, Steel Ring, Ring of Skulls.


Currently, without the cloak of pockets, I've been taking the random item and the item design because they're more useful than the Stamina potion. I currently have Winged Boots and Eagle-Eye Goggles, because Jump is invaluable on a character with Move 5 and Move 6 in such plentiful supply.

I don't have an Armor item yet.
I've taken perks to remove -1's and replace the -2 with +0, and a Rolling Invisibility. I'm going to remove the rest of my negatives, then remove +0's, to get my deck as small and as positive as possible. Then, once I start adding Rolling Modifier perks, I'll get rid of the goggles and get the Talisman instead. That's 3 or 4 perks in the future, though, so it's a ways away. I'm not terribly impressed with Stamina Potion for the Scoundrel, though that might be because the random item design basically nullifies Losing a card instead, and the scenario item design buffs a lot of my abilities.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Steel Ring is a Consume -> Shield 4, and Ring of Skulls summons a Skeleton that I can use to get Ally Adjacency bonuses, and also he'll tank a hit or two if the Brute has a higher initiative than I do, so both of those rings do way more than the Stamina potion.
 
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Matt D
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scottatlaw wrote:
Dynalange129 wrote:
scottatlaw wrote:
The Scoundrel is pretty straight forward. Make sure you give her the goggles, and a heater shield. There is a nice tier 2 armor that allows the scoundrel to hold a ton of items (which is much more powerful then it sounds). That paired with the tier 2 necklace allows you to spam your best card combos early in the scenario.


Why the heater shield? I find it has minimal effect completely and written it off. Though I've unlocked other hand items that are better. Plus I like the invisibility cloak get me out of a messy situation.


Early game though you don't have a ton of good hand items. The heater shield is nice because you can't keep you invisibility up that effectively if you are pure DPS. I've completely ditched invisibility with my Scoundrel in fact. She also tends to have the lowest initiative number, so enemies tend to target her ahead of the Brute or Cragheart (her go to tanks). I am not a fan of any gear for this character that adds negative modifiers (since she is my DPS) so the hide armor is out. Instead, I gear her up with the cloak that allows for extra items. Stamina potion + the necklace from your level 2 shop is AMAZING for the Scoundrel. Use it to abuse your best combos in the first few rounds of a scenario. Not only does it allow you to completely dominate that opening room, but it gives your deck some serious staying power over the long haul of the scenario.


What do yo mean gives your deck staying power?
 
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Spyros Gkiouzepas
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My biggest issue is that although you have some pretty strong attacks it's very difficult to get enough attacks or enough XP in a scenario. I always seem to lag behind in XP in a given scenario because Spellweaver gets a ton from his area attacks.

Brute rolls through his deck faster because of more attack targets per scenario.

So until you get rid of the -1, -2 cards you have few attacks with high variance. How can you get more attacks, or more XP?
 
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Emile Mulder
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One thing I learned the hard way about scoundrel is there are some situational cards that you'll want in your deck. It can be tempting to fill your deck up with high mobility high attack cards and not much else. That leaves you as a good looter and a middling damage dealer (depending on your group construction you might have a hard time proccing the adjacency effects to get you xp and kills). It's better to include some of the cards that let you pull or move enemies, like smoke bomb. Use these either to set off traps or to get adjacency bonuses. Also use summons like others suggested. Try to have most turns end with yourself safe because your targets are dead.

Smoke bomb's loss ability can also be very strong if used at the right moment. My favorite combo involved a two card combo available at lvl 4 or so that allowed me to deal 8+ damage to 3 targets in range 3.

Once you get enhancement, adding a jump to a card is also a very good idea. Make sure you pick something you'll use a lot. I wound up with it on flanking strike as it was a lvl 1 card and relatively low initiative with a generally useful top and bottom.
 
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James Champagne
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Greeek geek wrote:

My biggest issue is that although you have some pretty strong attacks it's very difficult to get enough attacks or enough XP in a scenario. I always seem to lag behind in XP in a given scenario because Spellweaver gets a ton from his area attacks.

Brute rolls through his deck faster because of more attack targets per scenario.

So until you get rid of the -1, -2 cards you have few attacks with high variance. How can you get more attacks, or more XP?


For Scoundrel, you have to view loot add an alternate means of character progression. If you value money early on, your strength will naturally improve too the point where you'll start leveling more frequently.
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Emile Mulder
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Indeed, my scoundrel was always getting the loot chests and fairly consistently picking up coins as well (I was playing solo, so this wasn't upsetting any other players). Even in multiplayer games, the chests can be hard to get to and it just makes sense that the scoundrel should get it, because she's the only one that can. Use this to your advantage - when the choice is no one gets it vs the scoundrel gets it, the scoundrel wins.

In my game, the scoundrel wound up with plenty of strong items and enough coins to buy whatever she needed, including enhancements. Some of these items became central to her strategies - for example, one looted item gave her a +1 bonus to nearly all of her attacks, which is far better than a perk or a single slightly better card you'd get from leveling. Also, once I figured out how to get adjacency bonuses when I needed them, leveling became much easier, and my scoundrel wound up ahead of the group curve on that too. She retired after having outpaced the other characters in all respects.
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Spyros Gkiouzepas
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JorduSpeaks wrote:

For Scoundrel, you have to view loot add an alternate means of character progression. If you value money early on, your strength will naturally improve too the point where you'll start leveling more frequently.


That was an eye opener, thanks! With 2 perks and at level 3 I now have a super trimmed down deck at 12 cards with a -1 and auto-miss. And items really help to increase your options to position enemies.
 
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Mauro Moura
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Norphinkr21 wrote:
One of my friends plays a scoundrel, and she did something really cool I didn't think of with an item you get in an early mission.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
She picked up the Ring of Skulls and used it to summon a skeleton to get the adjacency bonus off of her abilities.


It was awesome to watch, because I hadn't even thought of it. Totally nuked an earth demon the turn she did it.


This works particularly well with the card where you have to have an adjacent ally to insta kill a normal mob (Visage of the Inevitable, its a lv 5 card), just walk towards some archer alone in the back, pop your summon and profit. Best part is the summon wont even be in danger and will actualy manage to live and be helpfull on your next turn.

The Scoundrel is imo the strongest single target damage dealer in the game, I have seen most classes so far, only 3 left to see, Scoudnrel is still the king of hurt.

My Scoundrel retired at Lv 6, but I liked her so much Ill probably make another one further down the line. For cards I picked the follwing (and Ill give my insight on why I chose each):

Lv 2 Open Wound - I don't think theres any debate here, Open Wound is miles ahead of Flintlok, even if you dont'have an ally adjacent it is a 4 damage attack at initiative 11, if you do have an ally adjacent, it adds wound and gives XP. Bottom is also awesome with a move 4. Flintlok is bad, you don't need a 90 initi card with loot on top cause you have hundreds of other ways to loot as a scoundrel, and a loss attack for 5 damage on bottom is very underwhelming for a loss. if you get Flintlok for the loss attack without movement on bottom and with loot on top youll end up using it as a move 2 most of the scenario, tahts not good.

Lv 3 Duelist Advance - Again I don't see much competition here, I'd only ever take Hidden Daggers if I were playing in a comp were Id constatntly be in danger and needed invisibility very badly, even so for it to work properly you need to combo it with a low init card as Hidden Daggers have 85 ini... Duelist Advance on the other hand is move 3 attack 3 on top wich gives you even more mobility and flexibility and the bottom is fantastic giving you extra 2 damage on attacks when you cna afford to sit still.

Lv 4 Flurry of Blades - Altough Gruesome Advantage is quite strong (move 7 on bottom, scoundrels are stupid mobile, its funy)I feel like Isaac might have been high when he came up with Flurry of Blades. Top is a free XP ranged attack for 2 on 3 targets, with a lv 4 scoundrel mod deck attack 2 is actualy attack 3.5 on average, and power potion is a thing. And if you don't think thats much the initiative of the card is 3 (Im not sure Ive seen a lower ini anywhere) and the bottom is a move 4 that gives you advantage for all attackss this round and its not a loss. Ye, this feels like a Lv 7+ card of other classes.

Lv 5 Visage of the Inevitable - Cull the Week top is quite strong but I feel its bottom is a bit uselless unless you have someone else in your party to bring the disarm imobilizes and stuns, it lacks internal sinergy. Now Visage of the Inevitable has a move 4 on bottom but who cares you get it for the top. Its honestly one of the best insta kill cards in the game, it gives a XP, is not a loss and the condition is easilly met because your scoundrell can always go first and move wherever he wants in a round with his super low init high move cards, can use a summon item as I mentioned above to fulfill the having an adjacent ally requirement, and he can even use sinister oportunity bottom to reposition monsters in a way that will meet the criteria for the insta kill (altough in this case he is probably going last in the round as both Visage and Sinister have terrible inits). I felt like this card was a gamechanger and made scenarios way easier.

Lv 6 Burning Oil - both cards here can be powerfull, if I were to get Crippling Poison tough itd be for the bototm attack and not for the top, Id replace Thieves Knack with it. I prefered to get Burning Oil and remove Swift Bow tough, the top is a much stronger ranged attack and the bottom can replace the move loot bottom of Swift Bow well enought, also on Lv 6 you need gold a lot less and I felt like I already had way too many move cards on the deck as it was, so Swift Bow went away and Burning Oil came in.

When I retired my Scoundrel he had the following cards as his main hand:

Open Wounds
Venom Shiv
Flanking Strike
Burning Oil
Duelists Advance
Visage of the Inevitable
Sinister Oportunityw
Thief's Knack
Flurry of Blades

I dind't get to play much at Lv 6 tough, but I was loving Burning Oil on the two scenarios I ran as Lv 6.

As for perks I first removed all the negatives and swaped -1 with +1s, then I removed the 0s, then went to replacing 0s with 2s and only then I went for the rolling +1s, I feel that before you add as many +s and remove as many -s as you can from your mod deck rollings make little sense as you'll just end up rolling into crap.

Thats my insight on what my experiences and toughs on the scoundrel were, hope its helpfull (or at least interesting/entertaining) for someone.
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Mike Weisz
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Norphinkr21 wrote:
One of my friends plays a scoundrel, and she did something really cool I didn't think of with an item you get in an early mission.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
She picked up the Ring of Skulls and used it to summon a skeleton to get the adjacency bonus off of her abilities.


It was awesome to watch, because I hadn't even thought of it. Totally nuked an earth demon the turn she did it.



I play the second edition of Gloomhaven so this might have changed from the first edition.
I found the Item design of that item not the item itself in an early scenario and the rules state: "If an item design is listed, find all copies of that item and add them to the city’s available supply."

Might you have played it wrong or is it actually possible to find the item in a scenario?
 
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Martijn Peeters
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I guess the scoundrel picked it up from the store after it was made available by the item design. That's what my scoundrel did and it made all adjacencies a lot easier to accomplish.
 
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Mike Weisz
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maretino wrote:
I guess the scoundrel picked it up from the store after it was made available by the item design. That's what my scoundrel did and it made all adjacencies a lot easier to accomplish.



I can see this working once since it seems to be very difficult to keep the ally alive and also difficult to keep up movement wise to the next target.

Any tips and tricks to keep it alive and/or making it keep up with the scoundrels movement?
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Early campaign treasure chest spoiler

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I typically don't use my Ring of Skulls until the last or second-to-last room in a scenario. I haven't found anything yet that would speed it up otherwise.

You could always long rest (never short rest) to make it slightly faster in relation to yourself, as in, the skeleton will get N + 1 turns for every N of the Scoundrel's, but that's still just a Move 2 -- not enough to traverse the map in most cases.

Prosperity 2 spoiler

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I suppose you could also wear the Empowering Talisman, summon in the first room, get its benefit, dismiss the skeleton, then use the Talisman to summon it again later. I personally prefer a different head item on my Scoundrel.
 
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