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Detective: A Modern Crime Board Game» Forums » General

Subject: A "board game", really? rss

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Jim Greenwood
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Basically an online RPG with an instruction booklet. (Only a vague mention as to "other printed elements".) So, my question: is it really considered a "board game"? If so, then exactly why?

What about the online RPG "Sleuth NOIR" then? Would that qualify as well? I can keep a clues pad handy for notes. See: http://noir.playsleuth.com
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Jason Brown
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Yet another exhibit in the case for an :eyeroll: emoji on BGG...
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I imagine it will have a board, bits and cards. Let's wait for more info before we judge. I think it sounds pretty interesting.
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Jim Greenwood
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Quote:
I imagine it will have a board, bits and cards. Let's wait for more info before we judge. I think it sounds pretty interesting.


Definitely sounds interesting & needs more info... agreed about that. I'm not against this game at all. I love detective games! I have several. Like I said, there's 'Sleuth Noir' online RPG that is quite successful.

But what are the boundaries that constitutes a "Board Game" from other genres? Something that is standalone? If you have to go online to be able to play it, isn't it really then an online game, with just some extra trinkets? Should board games be tech dependent? All questions that perhaps this game will prompt the community to explore.
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jianjun ma
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Nowadays the boundary is becoming more and more obscure.
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Joel Velez
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Grejam53 wrote:
Quote:
I imagine it will have a board, bits and cards. Let's wait for more info before we judge. I think it sounds pretty interesting.


Definitely sounds interesting & needs more info... agreed about that. I'm not against this game at all. I love detective games! I have several. Like I said, there's 'Sleuth Noir' online RPG that is quite successful.

But what are the boundaries that constitutes a "Board Game" from other genres? Something that is standalone? If you have to go online to be able to play it, isn't it really then an online game, with just some extra trinkets? Should board games be tech dependent? All questions that perhaps this game will prompt the community to explore.


I expect the conversation will basically be runoff from the First Martians forums. Either you are for tech in "boardgames" or you are against it.

I think that technology can enhance everything about a boardgame, but only when used correctly. I could envision a situation where an app or online resource might detract from a boardgame experience. That being said, I respect the fact that Ignacy is pushing the envelope and exploring ways to incorporate tech into his designs.
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Jason Wileman
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I really like this idea...and I think it could be a lot of fun.

BUT. The issue I have is, what happens if - more likely when - they decide to shut down the servers? It always happens eventually, and it renders the game unplayable and useless. No way that 10 or 20 years from now you'll be able to pull this back out and play it again. The same goes for games that are using apps, for example. I have an old Monopoly game that I've had since I was 5, and still play it...that won't be said for this one.

I don't hate it, and it might make for a fun game in the short term, but there's very little long term viability.
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Kārlis Jēriņš
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thecapn32 wrote:
I really like this idea...and I think it could be a lot of fun.

BUT. The issue I have is, what happens if - more likely when - they decide to shut down the servers? It always happens eventually, and it renders the game unplayable and useless. No way that 10 or 20 years from now you'll be able to pull this back out and play it again. The same goes for games that are using apps, for example. I have an old Monopoly game that I've had since I was 5, and still play it...that won't be said for this one.

I don't hate it, and it might make for a fun game in the short term, but there's very little long term viability.


This is not a valid concern with games using apps. There are all sorts of emulators nowadays, and there's no reason to expect there won't be, say, an Android 6 emulator available in 20 years.

It might be a valid concern with games that require an online component, though. I'm not entirely sure how those would be handled.
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Corey Mayo
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thecapn32 wrote:
I really like this idea...and I think it could be a lot of fun.

BUT. The issue I have is, what happens if - more likely when - they decide to shut down the servers? It always happens eventually, and it renders the game unplayable and useless. No way that 10 or 20 years from now you'll be able to pull this back out and play it again. The same goes for games that are using apps, for example. I have an old Monopoly game that I've had since I was 5, and still play it...that won't be said for this one.

I don't hate it, and it might make for a fun game in the short term, but there's very little long term viability.


It could also be a game that is legacy-style in nature, at least on a scenario level. I can play (and have) a single scenario of Mansions of Madness multiple times because the layout/end game is randomized. But maybe this game will be different and each scenario is exhausted once you play it (with new DLC released later)...? In that case, the sting of not being able to play it again in 10 or 20 years won't be such a big deal.

I think it's funny that Ignacy Trzewiczek said that his least favorite part of developing First Martians was dealing with the app and the programers... and now he's doing this.

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Jason Wileman
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TheNameWasTaken wrote:

This is not a valid concern with games using apps. There are all sorts of emulators nowadays, and there's no reason to expect there won't be, say, an Android 6 emulator available in 20 years.

It might be a valid concern with games that require an online component, though. I'm not entirely sure how those would be handled.


Very good point. Though this would mean having to find a download of the app if there is no more app store, and rigging the emulator to point to it. Not a deal breaker, but possibly a bit difficult for the less tech-inclined.

I really wasn't thinking about that though - I was thinking about apps that are just fronts for web calls. Not sure how those app-based games are built, I don't have any personally.

 
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Jason Wileman
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cmmayo wrote:

It could also be a game that is legacy-style in nature, at least on a scenario level. I can play (and have) a single scenario of Mansions of Madness multiple times because the layout/end game is randomized. But maybe this game will be different and each scenario is exhausted once you play it (with new DLC released later)...? In that case, the sting of not being able to play it again in 10 or 20 years won't be such a big deal.

I think it's funny that Ignacy Trzewiczek said that his least favorite part of developing First Martians was dealing with the app and the programers... and now he's doing this.



I never considered that it wouldn't be a one-and-done type thing, and that the web component could randomize parts of it. That'd be interesting.

That said, I was just thinking about the fact that people are still playing Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective thirty years later, and prior to the re-release, were trading used copies over and over so people could play the same ten cases. Wouldn't happen with this, eventually.

I realize Legacy games are a different animal entirely, and I suppose you could catalogue this the same way, though...but in that case, it's a personal choice that's finishing the game, not an outside developer deciding to shut down their servers.
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Dean L
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thecapn32 wrote:
cmmayo wrote:

It could also be a game that is legacy-style in nature, at least on a scenario level. I can play (and have) a single scenario of Mansions of Madness multiple times because the layout/end game is randomized. But maybe this game will be different and each scenario is exhausted once you play it (with new DLC released later)...? In that case, the sting of not being able to play it again in 10 or 20 years won't be such a big deal.

I think it's funny that Ignacy Trzewiczek said that his least favorite part of developing First Martians was dealing with the app and the programers... and now he's doing this.



That said, I was just thinking about the fact that people are still playing Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective thirty years later, and prior to the re-release, were trading used copies over and over so people could play the same ten cases. Wouldn't happen with this, eventually.


Well there were also live action video games of three of the SHCD cases released a few years after, and they are available to buy and play on Steam right now and work fine...
 
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I.M. Jeremic
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you know when they make these boardgames with lots of online stuff in reality why bother with the boardgame element at all just make it completely online
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Nevermind what it's called. In the end it's only a game, using an app. At the same time I'm still very interested in converting this sort of game into app-less version despite the fact that many people are so mysteriously irritated by such idea.
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tzinc wrote:
you know when they make these boardgames with lots of online stuff in reality why bother with the boardgame element at all just make it completely online


You never know how the market reacts so it's nice to see designer pushing the boundaries a bit.
 
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Dean L
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sixpintsofbitter wrote:
Nevermind what it's called. In the end it's only a game, using an app. At the same time I'm still very interested in converting this sort of game into app-less version despite the fact that many people are so mysteriously irritated by such idea.


If the sort of research required is in to actually real world events, rather than fake info seeded on Google, it could be fun to try playing it with no internet in a library!
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There is this game on Steam called "Orwell" that basically does all this already and doesn't need board to play shake

I think that this is bad direction to take - I look for boardgames because I work with computers and electronic devices 24/7 - when I play board game I want to rest my eyes and detach myself from this smartphone slavery of today.

Not a title I would be interested in ...
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Jim Greenwood
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My intent is simply to discuss the tech nuance and this new direction of "board gaming" with the BGG community. Is it progress, an enhancement or an intrusion, a deterrent? And, to qualify, I do not know specifically if this is the case with a game like Detective.

I understand that board game designers are up against a host of instant gratification video games and apps these days. But I guess I'm still somewhat a purist when it comes to board gaming. Board games are timeless ... tech is not. Board gaming is different, as it is more introspective (pulling from within one's self) and cerebral.

Needing tech as a component in order to play the game, well then it might no longer be a board game. It's a chimera, a hybrid and needs a new definition or category. ("Tech Games" perhaps?)

I am not saying that it isn't a valid experience though. Video gaming, certainly has niche, be it online, PC or console. How far are you willing to go before you can no longer say it's a board game?
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tzinc wrote:
you know when they make these boardgames with lots of online stuff in reality why bother with the boardgame element at all just make it completely online


Because the player interactions you have are face-to-face with your friends, as opposed to being online, and there are a shedload of online detective games.

 
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Well if what I get from the designer interview is right you will have to search for "clues" on "open" channels so instead of interacting you will be glued to phone or laptop - where is this interaction you are speaking off ?
 
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Jim Cote
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Grejam53 wrote:
What about the online RPG "Sleuth NOIR" then? Would that qualify as well? I can keep a clues pad handy for notes. See: http://noir.playsleuth.com

Do you have any more info on this game/site? I can't seem to find out exactly what it is, even on the site itself. RPG implies that play real-time with other players. I'd love to solve cases by myself when I have time, rather than having to sync up or talk via a forum.
 
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Seryjniak wrote:
Well if what I get from the designer interview is right you will have to search for "clues" on "open" channels so instead of interacting you will be glued to phone or laptop - where is this interaction you are speaking off ?


If its a co-op, it would be sharing that information with the team.

Following your logic, playing a boardgame with cards is just being glued to bits of cardboard and not interacting.
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Ithkrall wrote:
Seryjniak wrote:
Well if what I get from the designer interview is right you will have to search for "clues" on "open" channels so instead of interacting you will be glued to phone or laptop - where is this interaction you are speaking off ?


If its a co-op, it would be sharing that information with the team.

Following your logic, playing a boardgame with cards is just being glued to bits of cardboard and not interacting.


Fallowing your logic, "Keep talking and nobody explodes" is a board game.
 
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Jim Greenwood
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ekted wrote:
Grejam53 wrote:
What about the online RPG "Sleuth NOIR" then? Would that qualify as well? I can keep a clues pad handy for notes. See: http://noir.playsleuth.com

Do you have any more info on this game/site? I can't seem to find out exactly what it is, even on the site itself. RPG implies that play real-time with other players. I'd love to solve cases by myself when I have time, rather than having to sync up or talk via a forum.


From the website:
"Sleuth is an open-ended detective RPG where you solve mysteries by searching for clues, questioning suspects and interviewing witnesses. Every mystery is unique, with different victims, suspects and clues. All mysteries are solvable, in fact there are always two ways to solve any single mystery, but player skill and a small amount of luck are necessary to nab the guilty suspect."

Yes there is a player community to give feedback, compare scores & ask for help, but it's pretty much you solving the crime on your own. Click around the various areas on the screen and you'll glean a lot more than I can express here.
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Seryjniak wrote:
Ithkrall wrote:
Seryjniak wrote:
Well if what I get from the designer interview is right you will have to search for "clues" on "open" channels so instead of interacting you will be glued to phone or laptop - where is this interaction you are speaking off ?


If its a co-op, it would be sharing that information with the team.

Following your logic, playing a boardgame with cards is just being glued to bits of cardboard and not interacting.


Fallowing your logic, "Keep talking and nobody explodes" is a board game.


And? Keep talking and nobody explodes certainly blurs the edges of what is considered a normal computer game, and certainly moves into the tabletop category. Especially as you can play it with a physical bomb manual.

It's coming at the integrated technology/board game idea from the other end, that's all.

I'm not sure why people feel the need to build silo's and pidgeon hole stuff. A board game with an app, or an app that can be played like a board game, who cares?
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