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Subject: So 10 days left and who expected such an underwhelming KS Project? rss

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Will Baker
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For me besides Rising Sun, this was going to be an exciting Kickstarter. I have always loved Thunderstone and I'm a huge fan of deckbuilders. I was so pumped on the announcement of a KS then here we are.

1. Artwork all over the place.
2. Still no decent play thru video.
3. Lack of exclusives I stand corrected
4. Boring updates
5. Premium price (same as Rising sun)

Don't mind paying a premium price but I just feel this KS has been really poor. Just my 2 cents.
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Christopher Grace
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I didn't pledge, so yeah ... I suppose I agree. Especially with point #5
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"Lack of exclusives"


??
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Chris Steele
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I'm confused by this post.

1) Artwork is great.
2) It's still Thunderstone - it plays like Thunderstone with a new dungeon, streamlined light and strength rules, and quests you play through.
3) There is an entire quest (240+ cards) that are exclusive
4) Updates are updates - they are informative and do what they need to do.
5) $100 for 1200+ cards, dice, and a few minis seems reasonable to me. Don't get me wrong, I've backed Rising Sun too - but I expect to play this far more.

I, for one, am very excited for this.
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Jeff Hall
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Misterboy wrote:
"Lack of exclusives"


??


I think they mentioned that the KS exclusives would be available at a later date, albeit possibly with different artwork. So exclusive-ish.
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Chris Lawson
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rvrratt wrote:
3. Lack of exclusives

????

The base game comes with 137 cards.

The kickstarter stretch goal exclusives are at the moment running at 246 cards! That's more cards than the 243 in a Quest box!
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Will Baker
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It's number 18 in popularity for Table top games and it's only raised just over 350k. That's with $100 pledges and the Thunderstone name. It's not even in the BGG hotness. So what's going on then?
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Jim McMahon
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rvrratt wrote:
3. Lack of exclusives


Serious question: What does having exclusives or not matter?
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Jonathan
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There's only so many times you can repackage Thunderstone and sell it back to people who bought the original...
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Will Baker
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JJWonderboy wrote:
There's only so many times you can repackage Thunderstone and sell it back to people who bought the original...


That's true!
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Will Baker
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jimmcmahon wrote:
rvrratt wrote:
3. Lack of exclusives


Serious question: What does having exclusives or not matter?


Value of course. I do reverse my stance on the exclusives. I didn't realize the card count. Still believe it's a underwhelming KS.
 
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I am pretty happy how TSQ campaign is run. At this point money spent wise I'm content what we have unlocked, and more is coming! Rules and a new video was promised and should be released before the campaign closes. Everyone still waiting for those, has a chance to see them before the final decision. For a card game, the current number reached is very good and it might even reach half a million before the end. Stretchgoals for every $10000 at the moment! I'm more excited to this compared to Rising Sun which hasn't yet revealed a miniature or goal, that truly makes me to say wow. Thunderstone has with the complete (exclusive) Quest. Regarding style, I would say it's ok, but secretly hope they could hire artists who create mtg quality graphics!
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J Karrde
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As someone who hasn't pledged but was excited when this was announced, I agree with the general sentiment expressed by the OP. I followed the campaign for about a week, then gave up on it and will come back in the last 48 hours to see if it alleviated my concerns about the campaign.

1. The artwork is fine with me, but it is concerning that it's not a consistent style. Not something that would keep me from backing, but certainly not helping.

2. This whole campaign seems exclusively geared towards people who have and are fans of Thunderstone: Advance. While that is understandably a big target market for them, as someone who was intrigued by it years ago but never played nor learned more about it than it's an adventure DBG, I feel left out in the cold. I haven't gotten anything more from the campaign than a vibe of "It's like TS:A, but it's not! It's different and better!" A rulebook draft or rules video, or even a couple round detailed play through could actually tell me how the game plays.

3. I feel the opposite about this point (unless like Jeff said, it's available in other forms later) as it seems EVERYTHING is exclusive. This will likely keep me from looking into it at retail, which is likely the point in time when I'll actually be able to tell what this game is and whether I'll like it.

4. Meh, not really concerned about the updates, but I quickly started ignoring these (I did pledge $1 just to keep informed) not sure if that's because of the updates themselves or that I lost my initial zeal for the campaign as a whole.

5. While the price is in the acceptable range (IMO), it is on the upper side of that range. This is where #2 comes big into play for me. Without a better understanding of gameplay and how the game works, that's too much of a commitment for me to make on nothing but name alone (but again, it's not Thunderstone: Advance).

6. This last additional point is not a knock on the campaign, but my disappointment in lack of a solo/co-op mode. I was turned onto TS:A in the first place because I heard that it had a good solo mode. Going into this, I had assumed that it would at least be an acknowledged part of this game, beyond "we'll possibly look into it once the rulebook is complete" (will that even happen before the campaign is over?). As solo would likely be the majority of my play, the uncertainty of this aspect of the game being included at all prior to campaign deadline brings me back again to #5. Too much risk and too many unknowns for me to put down $60 + shipping.

As I said at the start, I haven't been paying attention to the campaign the last couple weeks, so hopefully when I turn back to it later my concerns will be alleviated. But even if not, oh well, and I hope that everyone who does back greatly enjoys the game.
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Jerrod Warr
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I'm backing and overall excited for the project, but agree the price feels too high for what is primarily a card game. I'd guess this is the main deterrent.

I don't think the game is hurt by the fact it's essentially an updated version of TS:A - there are other plenty of other games that have been printed and revised for the umpteenth time and still sell very well; it has to primarily be other factors affecting lower pledge levels.







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David Christopher
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jimmcmahon wrote:
rvrratt wrote:
3. Lack of exclusives


Serious question: What does having exclusives or not matter?


I will be honest as someone who has backed about 10 KS projects that KSE's are very important to me if I'm going to plunk down, in most cases, 100+ dollars for a game that will retail for half of that.

With that said I'm very excited for this KS. I don't see what the issue is, maybe because my wife and I were already fans of TS:A, and this just looks like a fresher version in many ways.

As someone else said you're getting 1200+ cards and all the extras for $100..not to mention getting it in your hands sooner than everyone else (at retail).

And unfortunately every game can't have solo mode or co-op mode...shake
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Brad
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I just wanted to add my opinion that I think the Kickstarter has been pretty good overall. It's generated a lot of pledges and funding along with some killer stretch goals. I will admit they could have done a better job bringing in new players from the start by having proper gameplay available. Oh well. It's funded. Those who want it will get it and after that it will hit retail to see where it goes from there. Cheers!
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Sky Zero
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I'm waiting for retail and reviews. The whole campaign had me saying...meh. BUT, it did make a few hundred thousand for a game that's been re-implemented multiple times now in as many years.
 
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Fluss Burrito
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1) No solo rules
2) Artwork still sucks and looks cheap
3) No detailed playthrough/rules etc.
4) Still feels like an "easy/casual" Thunederstone variant, even I could be totaly wrong, because of the lack of information/proof
 
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Scott
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I've pledged now, but am seriously considering dropping. This is an established game company, they should have at least had some beta rules available from the start. Their videos have also been way more commercials than containing any actual useful information about how the game plays.

These facts combined with the fact that this is the second time they've updated this game doesn't give me a lot of confidence that they will stick with it for very long.
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M S
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chiron.42 wrote:
Misterboy wrote:
"Lack of exclusives"


??


I think they mentioned that the KS exclusives would be available at a later date, albeit possibly with different artwork. So exclusive-ish.


I don't think they've ever said KS exclusives "would" be available. They have said "if" they make them available, they would have different art.

That being said, I'm not thrilled with the idea of possibly having the KS exclusive content sprinkled throughout multiple future products, thus reducing actual new content for anyone who backed their kickstarter. If they released them as promos here and there or in their own product that KS backers could just skip, that would be fine.
 
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steele22374 wrote:
I'm confused by this post.

1) Artwork is great.
2) It's still Thunderstone - it plays like Thunderstone with a new dungeon, streamlined light and strength rules, and quests you play through.
3) There is an entire quest (240+ cards) that are exclusive
4) Updates are updates - they are informative and do what they need to do.
5) $100 for 1200+ cards, dice, and a few minis seems reasonable to me. Don't get me wrong, I've backed Rising Sun too - but I expect to play this far more.

I, for one, am very excited for this.


For the most part I agree with you. At this point I'm in and will likely stay in, but I really want to see rules and a "real" game play video.

Also, to me, artwork isn't that important. I'm more concerned with actual game play. As long as the art work isn't ridiculously bad, of course.

The point where I disagree is that the updates are informative. In my mind, the vast majority of the updates are along the lines of, "There will be Heroes, they will be awesome.... YELLOW MEEPLE... blah, blah, blah, YELLOW MEEPLE!!!" I'd like to see spoilers and other actual information instead of the constant nothing-is-final-yet-so-we-can't-show-you-jack attitude.

Many KS projects I have backed have shown content that they later changed. They simply said, "Hey, in further play testing we found a way to make the game better. This is what we are doing now." Nobody seemed to have a problem with that. For the most part the response is gratitude that they made the game better.
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David Russell
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The original post mentions lack of exclusives are an issue - given there are multiple comments and threads saying the high number of exclusives are considered an issue it is a strange comment.

Videos are there, albeit on the side of annoying rather than purely informative, i can see an issue for newcomers but anyone who has played Thunderstone before should be pretty clear what to expect.

I dont think you can compare to Rising Sun, comparing a models based game to a card game is a bit unfair really. I looked at Rising Sun and felt it a re-theme of blood rage which doesnt interest me that much, and the models are just ok. Thats going to be an overhyped KS from my perspective. The content CMON seems to include via stretch goals sets a high bar for anyone.

There are plenty of updates that i read through.

Artwork is pretty good, but a different style to Advance, if you just want more Advance style cards i can see the disappointment. But as i have all the Advance stuff i am quite glad this has a fresh look - not all artwork is final either. I think the general style is clear though from the goblins and heroes on display.

What it doesnt have and which would lift the game into another level is a good solo / co-op mode - i think this is a mistake which maybe they will catch on to by the end. However its a game that i believe can be made to solo (maybe not co-op as the cards would need more co-op triggers). If they had built this into the launch i think this game would have had many more backers - but it could all change. For a third incarnation though it really should have been built in this time.

Still 10 days left, even Kingdom Death went crazy in the last few days for updates and new things so we may not have seen it all yet.

I don't disagree that the KS could have been even better and i guess its hard to make a crazily engaging KS on a third release of the game. It is still pretty good and value wise - base game plus 3 full quest expansions and loads of other bits and pieces or - base game plus a quest box and an extra stretch full stretch quest expansion for $60. I spent more on Advance when i add up the expansions i bought.

Value is difficult to judge - i just backed Champions of Midgard for $50 and thats only a load of expansion rules and add ons - good ones though - so is $60 for Thunderstone Quest worse value or is $100 a good price for Rising Sun that seems like a remake of another KS that isnt even old yet ?

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Brett Smith
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The game is very expensive and in a super saturated deck builder market just see no reason to jump on in this kickstarter. Could care less about the kickstarter exclusive stuff so will just wait for retail and pick it up a lot cheaper if I even want another deck builder at all.
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Chris Lawson
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crusaderlord wrote:
It is still pretty good and value wise - base game plus 3 full quest expansions and loads of other bits and pieces seems good to me.

It looks like the first 243 Kickstarter Exclusive cards (from the Stretch Goals) make up an actual complete Quest Expansion, Total Eclipse of the Sun.

So for $60 you get the base game plus two Quest Expansions.
(A Mirror in the Dark and the Kickstarter Exclusive Total Eclipse of the Sun)

For $100 you get the base game plus four Quest Expansions.
(A Mirror in the Dark, Risen from the Mire, At the Foundations of the World, and the Kickstarter Exclusive Total Eclipse of the Sun)

I wonder what comes in the retail base game? I assume there's going to be a Quest (A Mirror in the Dark) because you can't play with just the 137 Base Game cards.

Then there is the 48 card Prologue, The Bandits of Black Rock. How does that figure in? It isn't a KSE. Will it be a standalone deck available for purchase or will it come with the base game (maybe instead of a 243 card Quest)
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Thanks to the odd line break in my browser, when I saw Total Eclipse of the, I was all "1980's Ballads in Thunderstone! NOOOOOO......"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcOxhH8N3Bo
 
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