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Subject: Bad games you actually think are good? rss

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Roger Morley
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Just a thought.

There are quite a few wargames out there which many feel are just bad games, whether through design, lack of developement, poorly written rules, or just generally "broken" etc, but after you have played them, you feel they are actually good games and do not deserve their poor rating?

This post may not get many responses, but it was just one of those thoughts that popped into my head and had me wondering if there were any under-rated games out there!

Cheers
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Łukasz
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nemesisuk wrote:
This post may not get many responses, but it was just one of those thoughts that popped into my head and had me wondering if there were any under-rated games out there!


Contrary to a negative review I once posted, I really do have a lot of warm feelings for Stalin's War. The only thing I can't compel myself to be fond of is the scripting nature of events. Other than that... I need to play it again, I guess.
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mochara
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Modern Naval Battles. Consensus of opinion is lukewarm, the rules are sketchy and it's mightily abstracted....but I love the way the cards look, the quick decision making and the wild-ass guessing that's required.
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Mike Stoddart
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I don't think anyone likes this game, but I'm enjoying America Triumphant: The Battle of the Bulge.
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Brian Train
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Some brave experiments come to mind:

Lost Battles
Combined Arms

These two early efforts on operational level warfare - one generic Eastern Front, one cross-period - were poorly written and presented but they had interesting ideas in them. I liked the way they presented "systems" and how you could change them befitting the situation or era.

Tito

This game gets an undeservedly bad rap because it looked so weird for its time and it had an unusual topic. Gamers are a mostly conservative lot, especially wrt visual styles. Again, some great ideas in here.

Brian
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Juan Valdez
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I still enjoy PanzerBlitz.

Having trained as a reconnaissance Marine, the so-called "panzerbush" problem is not that big a deal for me. It's not that difficult to hide a _lot_ of people in a woodline 500+ meters (2 hexes) away. Go outside, try it. A simple adjustment to the rules (per designer's notes) allowing "spotted when fired," problem solved.

Terrain is actually my real beef with the system...real hills rarely look like what's on the PB/PL/AIW maps.

But I enjoy it anyway!
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Mike Stoddart
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Another oddity that I like is Triumph and Fall of the Desert Fox. The rules are in dire need of a rewrite but I enjoyed it's quirkiness.
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Tim Korchnoi
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ltmurnau wrote:
Some brave experiments come to mind:

Lost Battles
Combined Arms

These two early efforts on operational level warfare - one generic Eastern Front, one cross-period - were poorly written and presented but they had interesting ideas in them. I liked the way they presented "systems" and how you could change them befitting the situation or era.

Tito

This game gets an undeservedly bad rap because it looked so weird for its time and it had an unusual topic. Gamers are a mostly conservative lot, especially wrt visual styles. Again, some great ideas in here.

Brian


+1 on Tito It is an unusual game but does depict asymmetrical warfare well. The biggest drawback, IMO, is it's hard to play solo so I had to part with it.
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Mike Hoyt

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Roger, if you go to My Geek > Stats > Underrated you can see how your ratings compare to the site as a whole. You can check other people's profile to see the same thing, for instance the most underrated game in your collection is

Picket Duty: Kamikaze Attacks against U.S. Destroyers – Okinawa, 1945

which you rate a 10 and the rest of the site is considerably cooler on.

That Stats page is kinda fun. You'll notice overrated (where you rate the game below the rest of the site, biggest discrepancy etc.)

For myself, it's weird, but I actually think my 10's are really good, regardless of them showing up on my underrated stats.... weird eh?
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Tony Doran
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And



Taken together as the Second World War. These games got terrible ratings early after their release. But Avalanche stuck with it, supporting them well, and produced a third edition of the rules.

I am really enjoying them now, even though their average ratings remain low.
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Martin McCleary
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another vote for Lost Battles. I still have the flat tray version I bought at SPI on a visit to New York back in the day.

It's one I'd like to see "fixed" and resurrected. I think the idea was Panzer Blitz with battalions and regiments vice platoons.
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Brian Train
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Rallye72 wrote:
another vote for Lost Battles. I still have the flat tray version I bought at SPI on a visit to New York back in the day.

It's one I'd like to see "fixed" and resurrected. I think the idea was Panzer Blitz with battalions and regiments vice platoons.


Me too.
It was the one game I've encountered that took the concept of road space (occupied by a moving unit) seriously.

Brian
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Karl Kreder
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narodynot wrote:


And



Taken together as the Second World War. These games got terrible ratings early after their release. But Avalanche stuck with it, supporting them well, and produced a third edition of the rules.

I am really enjoying them now, even though their average ratings remain low.


I am not a big fan of Avalanche Press or the production values but I still love these games.
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Sean McCormick
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A game that was hampered by the rulebook (though the problems were overblown), but one that elegantly captures its subject matter and that takes CDGs in an interesting direction.
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Jonathan Townsend
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stodge wrote:
Another oddity that I like is Triumph and Fall of the Desert Fox. The rules are in dire need of a rewrite but I enjoyed it's quirkiness.


I love the whole series of these games - Empires of Apocalypse (Morsecode...- being the first of the four). The rules have lots of gaps but are a cool system, the translation is off but idiosyncratic and personable, the map graphics (by the game designer) are horrible but lovable, and though it is a monster vassal etc modules were officially banned.

I am still looking to get it back to the table so I can finish my PTO full campaign game and tutorial videos.

I think I also like the fact that it is an underdog - there is some charm in championing a crap but beloved sports team.
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Eddy Sterckx
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If you want a more "objective" look at this, go to your personal page - stats tab - and click on "largest disparities in ratings" which will list all the games you've rated at least a delta of 2 different from BGG's rating.

I've got 148 games in that list - which means I like a lot of games the average BGG gamer hates and dislike a whole lot of BGG favourites.

I don't care - you're all wrong anyway
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Roger Morley
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blockhead wrote:
Roger, if you go to My Geek > Stats > Underrated you can see how your ratings compare to the site as a whole. You can check other people's profile to see the same thing, for instance the most underrated game in your collection is

Picket Duty: Kamikaze Attacks against U.S. Destroyers – Okinawa, 1945

which you rate a 10 and the rest of the site is considerably cooler on.

That Stats page is kinda fun. You'll notice overrated (where you rate the game below the rest of the site, biggest discrepancy etc.)

For myself, it's weird, but I actually think my 10's are really good, regardless of them showing up on my underrated stats.... weird eh?

Mike,

It looks like I am the champion for under-rated games.. I like to give them every chance in life before Darwinism kicks in!

However, I never go by the Geek rating,if I have to make a judgement on a game before I buy, I use the average, as do most people I guess, and then sift through the comments.
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M St
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blockhead wrote:
Roger, if you go to My Geek > Stats > Underrated you can see how your ratings compare to the site as a whole.

The problem is that this is based on the geek rating, not the wargame rating, so generally not a good comparison.
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epa minondas
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https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/13498/epic-peloponnesian...
People says : "It's unplayable, too long, too fiddly".
For me, this the best game on the subject :
- Innovative combat system,
- Innovative with the Militance/Allegance value (and no, you don't have to check all the regions AL/ML every phase,only at certain occasion)
- Beautiful component
- Yes it's long, but a 27 years war with monthly turn..."What did you expect"...And the tempo of the game is faster, so you won't go to 404BC, you'll finish before.
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Brian McCue
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mtngrown wrote:

I still enjoy PanzerBlitz.

Having trained as a reconnaissance Marine, the so-called "panzerbush" problem is not that big a deal for me. It's not that difficult to hide a _lot_ of people in a woodline 500+ meters (2 hexes) away. Go outside, try it. A simple adjustment to the rules (per designer's notes) allowing "spotted when fired," problem solved.

Terrain is actually my real beef with the system...real hills rarely look like what's on the PB/PL/AIW maps.

But I enjoy it anyway!


I didn't believe the Panzerblitz terrain, especially the gullies, until I worked with Marines (I'm a civilian worker for the Department of the Navy) at Camp Pendleton. The gullies there are just like the ones in the game.
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Dark Crusade: The War in the East 1941-45


So much errata but I still had fun with it and thought there was a good game in there. One of these days I'll have to try the second edition.
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Mike Stoddart
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Agip wrote:
stodge wrote:
Another oddity that I like is Triumph and Fall of the Desert Fox. The rules are in dire need of a rewrite but I enjoyed it's quirkiness.


I love the whole series of these games - Empires of Apocalypse (Morsecode...- being the first of the four). The rules have lots of gaps but are a cool system, the translation is off but idiosyncratic and personable, the map graphics (by the game designer) are horrible but lovable, and though it is a monster vassal etc modules were officially banned.

I am still looking to get it back to the table so I can finish my PTO full campaign game and tutorial videos.

I think I also like the fact that it is an underdog - there is some charm in championing a crap but beloved sports team.


I enjoyed your videos on this series. And I definitely agree with your sentiment on the underdog! I like quirky games - I'm not after the most realistic system. As long as it's somewhat realistic, then I'm ok just having fun with the game.
 
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Nick West
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I have a lot of love for Operation Market Garden which I rated a 8.5 versus a geek rating of 6.8.

GDW double-bind systems, the only one of the series I own, but reportedly the best - airborne pre-planned drops being particularly suited to a double-blind system.

Not sure why they did not sell better, probably as they were a little too different from the mainstream and relied on both players knowing the rules backwards and completely trusting each other to implement them.

We decided to house rule a few things - requiring airborne divisional integrity for example - and the lack of any rules (they were beyond us) for indirect artillery fire, but a really nice system that gave the right feel for the battle, a lot of tension and replay value.
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Juan Valdez
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brianmccue wrote:
mtngrown wrote:

I still enjoy PanzerBlitz.

Having trained as a reconnaissance Marine, the so-called "panzerbush" problem is not that big a deal for me. It's not that difficult to hide a _lot_ of people in a woodline 500+ meters (2 hexes) away. Go outside, try it. A simple adjustment to the rules (per designer's notes) allowing "spotted when fired," problem solved.

Terrain is actually my real beef with the system...real hills rarely look like what's on the PB/PL/AIW maps.

But I enjoy it anyway!


I didn't believe the Panzerblitz terrain, especially the gullies, until I worked with Marines (I'm a civilian worker for the Department of the Navy) at Camp Pendleton. The gullies there are just like the ones in the game.


Yep, I'm fine with the gullies. I've trained in similar gullies at Fort Benning in fact.

If anything, gullies in PB should be more prominent on at least one of the boards to simulate the larger gullies in Ukraine, also known as "balkas," many fine images of which may be found via google, etc.
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Rich Shipley
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blockhead wrote:
Roger, if you go to My Geek > Stats > Underrated you can see how your ratings compare to the site as a whole.


According to that, the most underrated game to me is The Napoleonic Wars (Second Edition). I can understand it not people to some people's tastes, but it hits all the buttons for me.
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