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Subject: Forced movement rss

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Dan Johnson
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If you push or pull an enemy they move closer/further away as if they were moving. This means they can move through their allies but not yours. I get that. However, does that mean that each square must be closer/farther away per movement rules or as the crow flies? It starts to matter when there are obstacles. Normally this sort of thing would clearly be ignoring movement, but that can lead to some situations where pushing them puts them closer to you. That, coupled with the weird interaction with allies, makes this a bit tricky.
 
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David desJardins
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HeadOfVecna wrote:
Normally this sort of thing would clearly be ignoring movement, but that can lead to some situations where pushing them puts them closer to you.


I don't understand. If you ignore movement, and only consider distance, then how can that lead to a situation where pushing puts them closer to you??
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Greg
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If pushing them puts them closer to you, then you can't do it.

Page 22 -

Quote:
Push X - The target is forced to move X hexes in a direction specified by the attacker, but each hex moved must place the target farther away from the attacker than it was previously. If there are no viable hexes into which to push the target, the push ends.



Bold in there from the rulebook.
 
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David Latimore
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In a push, every hex moved most be further away from you than the one previous.


In a pull, every hex moved must be closer to you than the one previous.


You should ignore obstacles and traps and other figures when determining if the monster is further or closer. It's as the crow flies. In a 'push 3', an adjacent monster should first be pushed to range 2, then range 3, then range 4.
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David desJardins
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Maybe your question is something like this?


X X X X X X
X H O M . . X
X . X X X . X
X . . . . . X


In this situation, the Hero H could push the Monster east. That does mean that the monster and hero are "closer" along a (non-flying) movement path.
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Dan Johnson
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Maybe your question is something like this?


X X X X X X
X H O M . . X
X . X X X . X
X . . . . . X


In this situation, the Hero H could push the Monster east. That does mean that the monster and hero are "closer" along a (non-flying) movement path.


Yes. However there are a lot more innocuous situations than that. For instance if the setup is You-Ally-Monster and empty hexes all around you wouldn't be able to pull 2 adjacent to you using as the crow flies. Since at least one of those spaces would be equidistant ignoring obstacles you'd be unable to pull. If you account for obstacles then you would be able to pull him adjacent.
 
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David Latimore
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HeadOfVecna wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
Maybe your question is something like this?


X X X X X X
X H O M . . X
X . X X X . X
X . . . . . X


In this situation, the Hero H could push the Monster east. That does mean that the monster and hero are "closer" along a (non-flying) movement path.


Yes. However there are a lot more innocuous situations than that. For instance if the setup is You-Ally-Monster and empty hexes all around you wouldn't be able to pull 2 adjacent to you using as the crow flies. Since at least one of those spaces would be equidistant ignoring obstacles you'd be unable to pull. If you account for obstacles then you would be able to pull him adjacent.


You are correct that you wouldn't be able to pull him in this example.
 
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Phil Pettifer
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Thematically I'd expect it to be as the crow flies. It could lead to some very strange situations otherwise.
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Justin Boehm
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alphasquid wrote:
HeadOfVecna wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
Maybe your question is something like this?


X X X X X X
X H O M . . X
X . X X X . X
X . . . . . X


In this situation, the Hero H could push the Monster east. That does mean that the monster and hero are "closer" along a (non-flying) movement path.


Yes. However there are a lot more innocuous situations than that. For instance if the setup is You-Ally-Monster and empty hexes all around you wouldn't be able to pull 2 adjacent to you using as the crow flies. Since at least one of those spaces would be equidistant ignoring obstacles you'd be unable to pull. If you account for obstacles then you would be able to pull him adjacent.


You are correct that you wouldn't be able to pull him in this example.


But if it was HM(1)M(2) could I(H) pull M(2) two spaces to be in the hex SE of me (H)?
 
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David Latimore
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Gambit001 wrote:
alphasquid wrote:
HeadOfVecna wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
Maybe your question is something like this?


X X X X X X
X H O M . . X
X . X X X . X
X . . . . . X


In this situation, the Hero H could push the Monster east. That does mean that the monster and hero are "closer" along a (non-flying) movement path.


Yes. However there are a lot more innocuous situations than that. For instance if the setup is You-Ally-Monster and empty hexes all around you wouldn't be able to pull 2 adjacent to you using as the crow flies. Since at least one of those spaces would be equidistant ignoring obstacles you'd be unable to pull. If you account for obstacles then you would be able to pull him adjacent.


You are correct that you wouldn't be able to pull him in this example.


But if it was HM(1)M(2) could I(H) pull M(2) two spaces to be in the hex SE of me (H)?


I do not believe so.
 
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Marcus S
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They are called "push" and "pull" for a reason... Just use simple common sense... The closer and further defined while using the push and pull rules have nothing to do with the hexes they can or can't attack from, or focus or any of that. Just read the rulebook... Any hex being pushed to must be further away from you... It's that simple...
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d w
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alphasquid wrote:
Gambit001 wrote:
alphasquid wrote:
HeadOfVecna wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
Maybe your question is something like this?


X X X X X X
X H O M . . X
X . X X X . X
X . . . . . X


In this situation, the Hero H could push the Monster east. That does mean that the monster and hero are "closer" along a (non-flying) movement path.


Yes. However there are a lot more innocuous situations than that. For instance if the setup is You-Ally-Monster and empty hexes all around you wouldn't be able to pull 2 adjacent to you using as the crow flies. Since at least one of those spaces would be equidistant ignoring obstacles you'd be unable to pull. If you account for obstacles then you would be able to pull him adjacent.


You are correct that you wouldn't be able to pull him in this example.


But if it was HM(1)M(2) could I(H) pull M(2) two spaces to be in the hex SE of me (H)?


I do not believe so.


Correct, because moving from M1 to SE would not move it closer to the hero (and obviously it can't stop in M1 as it's already occupied so the monster is not pulled at all)
 
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CycyX
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CarcuS wrote:
They are called "push" and "pull" for a reason... Just use simple common sense... The closer and further defined while using the push and pull rules have nothing to do with the hexes they can or can't attack from, or focus or any of that. Just read the rulebook... Any hex being pushed to must be further away from you... It's that simple...


A lot of the questions asked are already answered in the rulebook...
If people could just read and not try to interpret it.
 
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David Harrison
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cycyx wrote:
CarcuS wrote:
They are called "push" and "pull" for a reason... Just use simple common sense... The closer and further defined while using the push and pull rules have nothing to do with the hexes they can or can't attack from, or focus or any of that. Just read the rulebook... Any hex being pushed to must be further away from you... It's that simple...


A lot of the questions asked are already answered in the rulebook...
If people could just read and not try to interpret it.


I disagree. The meaning of "closer" and "further" in the case of monster focus is clearly defined by the spaces that the monster can move to, not spaces it can make range to, so it's understandable there might be confusion when "closer" is later used in a different sense. And it's impossible to "just" read something and not interpret it if you hope to get any meaning out of it; hopefully your interpretation is what the author had in mind, but that's not always the case.

That said, I'd agree it's pretty clear the meaning here is as the crow flies, or otherwise you'd get ridiculous scenarios like pulling moving an enemy farther away from you.

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Dan Johnson
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Thanks for the replies. As I said it's mainly the first part about using it's movement that had me questioning the common sense answer of as the crow flies.
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