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Subject: Bootleggers: The Card Game rss

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Don Beyer
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Just checking the waters - is there any interest in a card game version of Bootleggers?

Don
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Wyckyd
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Sounds interesting - tell us more...
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Flying Arrow
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Probably.
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Brad Metz
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Bootleggers was and is a cornerstone game in my hobby progression. I would be interested in any updating or revisiting of the design. A card game is less exciting to me than, say, a full sequel, but I would certainly follow the development of such an animal and have high hopes for it.
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frida lavassani
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my group would love to see another expansion for the base game. not so much for a card game.
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Don Beyer
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I'm a little surprised about the interest in an expansion. I'll will need to think about that a little...

The draft design for a card game version I have now keeps the open negotiation and the thug cards, but streamlines and removes some of the fiddly parts. Also no dice which was a turn off for a lot of folks.

The other thought I had: people who own the base game would be able to use the trucks, crates, influence markers, and the copper (of course).
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Flying Arrow
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angelotti wrote:
I'm a little surprised about the interest in an expansion. I'll will need to think about that a little...

The draft design for a card game version I have now keeps the open negotiation and the thug cards, but streamlines and removes some of the fiddly parts. Also no dice which was a turn off for a lot of folks.

The other thought I had: people who own the base game would be able to use the trucks, crates, influence markers, and the copper (of course).


I wouldn't share components among the games.
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Don Beyer
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It wouldn't be shared components - that wouldn't work. It would just be for glamming up the game. For example, using the copper fig instead of, or as a marker on, the copper card. Wouldn't change the game mechanics, just add the toys.
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Disclaimer: I only got to play this once (though I loved it), so take my comments with a bucketful of salt.

Answer to your question: It's really all about the implementation. If it retains all the fun and flavor, yet reduces the lengthy time, then a card game version would be amazing (I'd certainly buy it) and all would praise it.

Thought 1: At the time I played it, it occurred to me that a "dice version" of the game would be spectacular. Just something to consider, though I know you say dice were less popular. For myself, I'm a huge fan of dice in games like this. I don't like it if dice 100% determine gameplay, but they can be a glorious component that adds fun and tension. Just to clarify, when I say dice version I'm referring to games that effectively turn dice into a deck of cards (speedy shuffling cycles; less options but occurring more frequently; etc.)

Thought 2: I'm not 100% sure how helpful asking here is, regarding "desire for a card game" because I'm very sure that Bootleggers hasn't actually found its core audience yet. If it had, then I would imagine that it would be quite a bit more popular.

Wishlist:
If I ruled the world, I'd love a new edition of this game that was changed in these ways:
1) geared towards 3-4 players and played equally well with 3 or 4
2) is shorter but keeps all the fun and flavor.

If you ONLY altered the above two things the game would be phenomenally more fun. If you can accomplish that with an expansion, that works too! Mechanically-speaking whether it's dice-driven, card-driven, etc. is less important to me. Good luck! :)
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Don Beyer
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Interesting insight (and I am glad you enjoyed the game - we had a great time putting it together and it is fun to see others enjoying it!!!)

I think folks felt the dice created too much randomness and got turned off, maybe, before exploring ways in which you could insulate your strategy from the randomness. Gaining more dice, remote stills, speakeasy upgrades, etc. But even more dramatic, avoiding the dice all together! Glenn clobbered us one time by buying all the trucks. It was a long time ago, but I think he almost completely ignored production. The negotiated the heck out of delivery. Anyways - we wanted to make a "hybrid," which I think we did, but that is not everyone's type of game.

Anyways, I am not sure that I am going to cut the user count down, unless it improves the game. I am always leery of reduced counts and potentially limiting the market. If I could - I would make it uniformly good across the full range, or alternatively (like Edel, Stein & Reich succeeded) have the game change in an interesting way with higher player counts. FWIW: it was designed for 6 to accommodate our usual game night group!

I definitely want to keep the fun and flavor - that's what has made the game successful in the groups where the type of game fits. The feedback I have received from our publisher is that it has become the game collection "standard" for negotiation and theme. When someone is looking for that type of game to round out their collection, they go to Bootleggers. So it has not shot off the shelves (which IMO is a little unrealistic expectation anyways) but has been a slow and steady seller.

I want to explore your comments around a "dice version" a little more - are you saying replacing dice with cards? Or more a more recently popular dice placement mechanic? Interested to hear your, and others of course, feedback.

Thanks for your post.

Don
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William Hoyt
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There are some terrific mechanics being used in both dice and card games in the super-filler arena of board-gaming.

I am a fan of Bang!(the card game) and really find Bang! the Dice game a refreshing, almost different take on a familiar game & setting. It plays a lot faster and some rule implementations make it a slightly different game. I enjoy both and wouldn't part with either.

The dice pool mechanic I've seen put to real good use as variable powers for each round in the Star Wars coop : Angriff Der Klonkrieger (Attack of the Clones - by Kosmos).

The card drafting mechanic found in games like 7 Wonders, Sushi Go & Oceanos are really interesting. An interesting side-effect is how little difference in play time it takes to play with the minimum or maximum player count.

I think Bootlegers would make a fantastic card or dice based game as well. I'm leaning a bit more towards a hybrid. And like mentioned maybe dice for placement or dice pool. And cards representing both currency, power-special events, etc (so there would be a choice on how to best use them and when).

Bootleggers is a terrific game. It's one I don't get out nearly as often as I'd like. And it would be interesting to see a quicker playing version that's maybe a little more streamlined and quick playing. So instead of one game we could play 2 or 3 and still feel the same satisfaction of planning and decisions.

~Will





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