Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
28 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Gloomhaven» Forums » Rules

Subject: Inactive party members and road events rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
M E
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Are party members that are not active for a particular scenario subject to
the outcomes of road events?

For example, the party has six characters, so at least two must be inactive.
If the results of the road event is something like "lose some gold", do the
two inactive characters lose gold too?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Pelkofer
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kontuz wrote:
Are party members that are not active for a particular scenario subject to
the outcomes of road events?

For example, the party has six characters, so at least two must be inactive.
If the results of the road event is something like "lose some gold", do the
two inactive characters lose gold too?


I think the designer has said that your whole party can be at a scenario and switch who is active and who isn't without returning to Gloomhaven. So, that would seem to suggest that you could have everyone affected.

We've chosen to play that any switching of characters requires a trip to Gloomhaven. And so, we have been playing that only the active characters are affected by city and road events. We like that fiction better.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Latimore
United States
Arizona
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
kontuz wrote:
Are party members that are not active for a particular scenario subject to
the outcomes of road events?

For example, the party has six characters, so at least two must be inactive.
If the results of the road event is something like "lose some gold", do the
two inactive characters lose gold too?


Typically, I'd say no. They aren't going to get gold or xp or anything from the scenario, they aren't there to help decide what to do. There's no reason, normally, to do it.

If you come across a situation where it makes sense, like say they show up for the 2nd in a linked scenario, then maybe have them do their own road event on their way to meet you. But I'd probably have our party go to town to pick them up so we can all do it together.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Isaac Childres
United States
Indiana
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
No, road events only affect the characters who are participating in the scenario.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M E
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Cephalofair wrote:
No, road events only affect the characters who are participating in the scenario.


Thanks, I've played it like this until now. And I'd just like to add that this game has exceeded my expectations, though at seven games in I've only just started!

I play solo, so far most games with three out of the four party members active. The upcoming scenario looks like it might benefit from a full team, but I'd prefer going with three first, then if I fail go in with the Brute.

If I do replay the scenario with the Brute I think I'll retroactively apply to him whatever result the original road event imposed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Felix Scholz
Germany
Gütersloh
NRW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You do know that if you fail a scenario and redo it without visiting Gloomhaven in between you would not suffer any effects from the road event on the second try, right?

So If you were to apply the effects for the Brute retroactivly he would be the only party member suffering them.

Personally I would go with Franks version, that you have to visit Gloomhaven to change party composition. That way you would have to do a new road event anyway that would effect all the party members the same way.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erik Burigo
Italy
Belluno
flag msg tools
designer
badge
“Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal.” - Granny Weatherwax
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Cephalofair wrote:
No, road events only affect the characters who are participating in the scenario.


I'd like to put events in chronological order to check if I understood it correctly (assuming campaign mode).

1) We decide which are the active members of the party.
2) A Road Event must be resolved each time a party travels (from Gloomhaven) to a non-linked scenario. Only party members currently active may be affected by it.
3) Between linked scenarios, or when repeating a scenario after failing it, we can activate/deactivate party members.
3.5) May we change party composition at the end of a scenario, before returning to Gloomhaven?
4) A City Event may be resolved each time a party returns to Gloomhaven. Only party members currently active may be affected by it.

We repeat from number 1 for the next streak of linked scenarios / scenario attempts.

I'm asking question 3.5 because sometimes we would stop the game session before returning to Gloomhaven, but I may have different people present at the next game session.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gary G
United States
Silverdale
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Painkeeper wrote:
Cephalofair wrote:
No, road events only affect the characters who are participating in the scenario.


I'd like to put events in chronological order to check if I understood it correctly (assuming campaign mode).

1) We decide which are the active members of the party.
2) A Road Event must be resolved each time a party travels (from Gloomhaven) to a non-linked scenario. Only party members currently active may be affected by it.
3) Between linked scenarios, or when repeating a scenario after failing it, we can activate/deactivate party members.
3.5) May we change party composition at the end of a scenario, before returning to Gloomhaven?
4) A City Event may be resolved each time a party returns to Gloomhaven. Only party members currently active may be affected by it.

We repeat from number 1 for the next streak of linked scenarios / scenario attempts.

I'm asking question 3.5 because sometimes we would stop the game session before returning to Gloomhaven, but I may have different people present at the next game session.


For 3.5 I've been making those 'new' individuals draw new City and Road cards for themselves to 'meet us' at our destination. We haven't been going through the decks fast but I can foresee it being a problem if doing it a lot.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Florin
United States
San Jose
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Isaac answered this:

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25158384#25158384
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erik Burigo
Italy
Belluno
flag msg tools
designer
badge
“Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal.” - Granny Weatherwax
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
aflorin wrote:


That's the response that justifies point 3) in my list (swapping characters between linked scenarios), but doesn't answer 3.5 (swapping characters before returning to Gloomhaven).
I'm leaning toward allowing it, but I'm curious about Isaac's opinion.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M E
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Snooches wrote:
You do know that if you fail a scenario and redo it without visiting Gloomhaven in between you would not suffer any effects from the road event on the second try, right?

So If you were to apply the effects for the Brute retroactivly he would be the only party member suffering them.

Personally I would go with Franks version, that you have to visit Gloomhaven to change party composition. That way you would have to do a new road event anyway that would effect all the party members the same way.


Only having the Brute effected results in consequences somewhere between adding him in with no penalty at all, and Frank's version where the entire team possibly suffers from a new set of effects. That's the appeal for me.

Painkeeper wrote:

...
4) A City Event may be resolved each time a party returns to Gloomhaven. Only party members currently active may be affected by it.


Page 43 of the rule book says "Once per visit to Gloomhaven, a party may complete a city event." I take that to mean any and all members of the party are eligible to participate. The expectations that city event outcomes are favorable may play a role in my interpretation.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Latimore
United States
Arizona
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
Painkeeper wrote:
aflorin wrote:


That's the response that justifies point 3) in my list (swapping characters between linked scenarios), but doesn't answer 3.5 (swapping characters before returning to Gloomhaven).
I'm leaning toward allowing it, but I'm curious about Isaac's opinion.


Of course it's ok to change members. If you could change before retrying, or heading to another scenario, why wouldn't you be able to do it before returning to Gloomhaven?

Many groups, such as my own. always stop the play session after a scenario. If we pick up again next week with a new player subbing in, we're not going to exclude him from the city event. How could that possibly be the right answer?

I do think it's a good idea to be consistent about whether you do them at the start or end of a session, but it's the party's choice.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Latimore
United States
Arizona
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
kontuz wrote:
Snooches wrote:
You do know that if you fail a scenario and redo it without visiting Gloomhaven in between you would not suffer any effects from the road event on the second try, right?

So If you were to apply the effects for the Brute retroactivly he would be the only party member suffering them.

Personally I would go with Franks version, that you have to visit Gloomhaven to change party composition. That way you would have to do a new road event anyway that would effect all the party members the same way.


Only having the Brute effected results in consequences somewhere between adding him in with no penalty at all, and Frank's version where the entire team possibly suffers from a new set of effects. That's the appeal for me.

Painkeeper wrote:

...
4) A City Event may be resolved each time a party returns to Gloomhaven. Only party members currently active may be affected by it.


Page 43 of the rule book says "Once per visit to Gloomhaven, a party may complete a city event." I take that to mean any and all members of the party are eligible to participate. The expectations that city event outcomes are favorable may play a role in my interpretation.


Only the members present participate in a road event.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcus S
Canada
Calgary
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Painkeeper wrote:
aflorin wrote:


That's the response that justifies point 3) in my list (swapping characters between linked scenarios), but doesn't answer 3.5 (swapping characters before returning to Gloomhaven).
I'm leaning toward allowing it, but I'm curious about Isaac's opinion.

3.5 is irrelevant and would have no impact on the game. If after doing a scenario you are planning to return to Gloomhaven, do this:
1. Return to Gloomhaven
2. Adjust party composition, optionally, do other City activities
3. Do City event
4. Optionally, do more City activities

City events do not occur on route TO Gloomhaven, but while IN Gloomhaven. I think the only thing this leaves up to interpretation, is can all 5 or 6 party members participate in a City event, but you may not have narrowed down which 4 are participating in the scenario yet...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erik Burigo
Italy
Belluno
flag msg tools
designer
badge
“Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal.” - Granny Weatherwax
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
alphasquid wrote:
Painkeeper wrote:
aflorin wrote:


That's the response that justifies point 3) in my list (swapping characters between linked scenarios), but doesn't answer 3.5 (swapping characters before returning to Gloomhaven).
I'm leaning toward allowing it, but I'm curious about Isaac's opinion.


Of course it's ok to change members. Of you could change becore retrying, or heading to Nother scenario, why wouldn't you be able to do it before returning to Gloomhaven? [...]


Because the rules don't say so.
While the rules state that the party composition may change over time because of character retirements or new characters created, they never mention a concept as "active party member" and seem to work under the assumption that a party has at most 4 characters (as per the maximum indicated number of players).

From the rules, the cycle players must undergo is:
A) Determine current party location and choose next the scenario you want to face.
B) Unless those 2 locations are the same location (you are redoing it after a failure), or are linked (like scenario 1 and 2), the party must resolve a Road Event.
C) Face the scenario. If failed, you can either return to Gloomhaven (step D) or replaying it right away.
D) Return to Gloomhaven and perform mandatory (retiring characters) and optional (resolving a
City Card) activities. Then, repeat from A.

This seems to be an entire cycle. If the players involved are always the same it's fine.
However the possibility to play with a variable number of characters every session has been suggested (I couldn't track when). This is even partially official too, given the 17 Solo scenarios Isaac generously created and provided us.

Because of this the following questions came to my mind.

In which moments may a bench or "activate" a character?
I know that we can do it between linked scenarios or between attempts to the same scenario, but still have no official answer on other moments (namely, the moment before returning to Gloomhaven).
Are benched characters affected by Road Events and City Events?
I know that benched characters are unaffected by Road Events, but what about City Events?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erik Burigo
Italy
Belluno
flag msg tools
designer
badge
“Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal.” - Granny Weatherwax
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
CarcuS wrote:
[...]
City events do not occur on route TO Gloomhaven, but while IN Gloomhaven. I think the only thing this leaves up to interpretation, is can all 5 or 6 party members participate in a City event, but you may not have narrowed down which 4 are participating in the scenario yet...


Yes, they happen in Gloomhaven, but - rules as written - they happen to "the party" after it returns to Gloomhaven. What is "the party" in this instance?
A - It's the whole party of 6 (or more) characters.
B - It's the same set of characters that faced the last scenario before returning.
C - It's the characters of the players currently present when we perform the city activities.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcus S
Canada
Calgary
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Painkeeper wrote:
CarcuS wrote:
[...]
City events do not occur on route TO Gloomhaven, but while IN Gloomhaven. I think the only thing this leaves up to interpretation, is can all 5 or 6 party members participate in a City event, but you may not have narrowed down which 4 are participating in the scenario yet...


Yes, they happen in Gloomhaven, but - rules as written - they happen to "the party" after it returns to Gloomhaven. What is "the party" in this instance?
A - It's the whole party of 6 (or more) characters.
B - It's the same set of characters that faced the last scenario before returning.
C - It's the characters of the players currently present when we perform the city activities.

My point is, there is no reason to swap out party members AFTER a scenario, and BEFORE returning to Gloomhaven, as this is can activity that can be performed IN Gloomhaven, so 3.5 is meaningless.
For our group, only members that are present can participate in the City event, whether it happens with the group that returns from a scenario, or the group that is about to depart for a scenario, is decided as we play (typically people are "selfish" and want to perform it after returning from a scenario for 2 reasons: in case they get something they can spend, and in case they aren't at the next session and would miss out on the City event).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M E
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
CarcuS wrote:

...
For our group, only members that are present can participate in the City event, whether it happens with the group that returns from a scenario, or the group that is about to depart for a scenario, is decided as we play (typically people are "selfish" and want to perform it after returning from a scenario for 2 reasons: in case they get something they can spend, and in case they aren't at the next session and would miss out on the City event).


Either approach seems fair, but you may want to come to an agreement on a consistent policy about which characters enjoy the once per visit city event.

If you decided the departing group should run the event, it might increase the motivation for your players to be there for the following session.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erik Burigo
Italy
Belluno
flag msg tools
designer
badge
“Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal.” - Granny Weatherwax
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
CarcuS wrote:
For our group, only members that are present can participate in the City event, whether it happens with the group that returns from a scenario, or the group that is about to depart for a scenario, is decided as we play (typically people are "selfish" and want to perform it after returning from a scenario for 2 reasons: in case they get something they can spend, and in case they aren't at the next session and would miss out on the City event).

Technically, you can't do the part I underlined. You may perform city activities only after having returned to Gloomhaven. But who are the characters that are returning? Hence the question in my previous post.

CarcuS wrote:
My point is, there is no reason to swap out party members AFTER a scenario, and BEFORE returning to Gloomhaven, as this is can activity that can be performed IN Gloomhaven, so 3.5 is meaningless.

Of course that's a point for that. You just made it clear that for you "only members that are present can participate in the City event".

That's why I am asking it. The rules end the cycle with activities in Gloomhaven. If party composition never vary, it's not important at which point of the cycle you end the session.
But if party composition varies (as we are assuming), and we may be forced to end the session before performing city activities, are we allowed to to them with a new party composition the next session?
You made up your answer, and it's probably the way we will be going to play it, but it's not an official answer until Isaac jumps in.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M E
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Painkeeper wrote:
CarcuS wrote:
For our group, only members that are present can participate in the City event, whether it happens with the group that returns from a scenario, or the group that is about to depart for a scenario, is decided as we play (typically people are "selfish" and want to perform it after returning from a scenario for 2 reasons: in case they get something they can spend, and in case they aren't at the next session and would miss out on the City event).

Technically, you can't do the part I underlined. You may perform city activities only after having returned to Gloomhaven. But who are the characters that are returning? Hence the question in my previous post.
...


It's not that the individual characters return to the city, but that the party as a collective does.

Then players can determine who the active characters are for their party. Then they can perform a city event.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcus S
Canada
Calgary
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Painkeeper wrote:
CarcuS wrote:
For our group, only members that are present can participate in the City event, whether it happens with the group that returns from a scenario, or the group that is about to depart for a scenario, is decided as we play (typically people are "selfish" and want to perform it after returning from a scenario for 2 reasons: in case they get something they can spend, and in case they aren't at the next session and would miss out on the City event).

Technically, you can't do the part I underlined. You may perform city activities only after having returned to Gloomhaven. But who are the characters that are returning? Hence the question in my previous post.

I guess this is where we disagree. The RAW say that a City event can be done "once per visit to Gloomhaven". There is no written order for the "visiting Gloomhaven" activities. So, considering one of the activities that can be performed in Gloomhaven is changing the party composition, my party could perform these activities in this order: return to Gloomhaven, change party composition, buy stuff, do City event, buy more stuff. Doing it this way negates any need to change party composition prior to returning to Gloomhaven.
For us, every session begins in Gloomhaven (if the previous session ended in Gloomhaven), so any of the Gloomhaven activities can be performed either at the end of one session, or the start of the next, of course we track/remember if we performed a City event at the end of the previous session).

Either way it is basically semantics, and I think it has very little bearing on anything, so we will continue to do it the way we have been, whether this is what was intended or not.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erik Burigo
Italy
Belluno
flag msg tools
designer
badge
“Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal.” - Granny Weatherwax
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
CarcuS wrote:
Painkeeper wrote:
CarcuS wrote:
For our group, only members that are present can participate in the City event, whether it happens with the group that returns from a scenario, or the group that is about to depart for a scenario, is decided as we play (typically people are "selfish" and want to perform it after returning from a scenario for 2 reasons: in case they get something they can spend, and in case they aren't at the next session and would miss out on the City event).

Technically, you can't do the part I underlined. You may perform city activities only after having returned to Gloomhaven. But who are the characters that are returning? Hence the question in my previous post.


I guess this is where we disagree. The RAW say that a City event can be done "once per visit to Gloomhaven". There is no written order for the "visiting Gloomhaven" activities. So, considering one of the activities that can be performed in Gloomhaven is changing the party composition, my party could perform these activities in this order: return to Gloomhaven, change party composition, buy stuff, do City event, buy more stuff. Doing it this way negates any need to change party composition prior to returning to Gloomhaven.
For us, every session begins in Gloomhaven (if the previous session ended in Gloomhaven), so any of the Gloomhaven activities can be performed either at the end of one session, or the start of the next, of course we track/remember if we performed a City event at the end of the previous session).


No; the phrase I underlined is not true. The things you can do in Gloomhaven about your party are retiring characters (mandatory) and creating new characters (at game start, after a retirement or pretty much whenever you feel). But there is no concept as "changing the party composition by benching/reactivating characters" simply because that's not how the game was initially intended. That's why I feel that to properly support a more fluid party composition, the questions above should be answered.

Quote:
Either way it is basically semantics, and I think it has very little bearing on anything, so we will continue to do it the way we have been, whether this is what was intended or not.

I agree on this. This is pure semantics and I - as you - will probably let the active portion of the party fluctuate according to the people present at the play session regardless of the specific moment in the cycle.
However, being semantics the "meaning of a word or speech" I think everyone may benefit by looking at it and, if possible, refine the sentences to properly back up our feelings with a logical system.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcus S
Canada
Calgary
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Wow, we have very different interpretations of the rules and "how the game was initially intended".
If creating characters can be done at any time in Gloomhaven, how would the party not change? Is that character not allowed to join an existing party? They have to start their own new party?

Quote:
Changes to the party makeup are fine, not only for characters, but players as well.

Quote from the rulebook, not sure how else this would be interpreted.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Arthur Janicek
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Snooches wrote:
You do know that if you fail a scenario and redo it without visiting Gloomhaven in between you would not suffer any effects from the road event on the second try, right?

So If you were to apply the effects for the Brute retroactivly he would be the only party member suffering them.

Personally I would go with Franks version, that you have to visit Gloomhaven to change party composition. That way you would have to do a new road event anyway that would effect all the party members the same way.


Correct me if I'm wrong on this but the RAW seem to indicate Road Events are only drawn and resolved while traveling to NEW unlinked Scenarios.

P41 rulebook under Traveling and Road Events

"In the case that players immediately travel to a new scenario, they must complete a road event before starting the new scenario unless they are playing the same scenario or the new scenario is linked to the previous scenario." (Underline mine)

The implication being a scenario that has not been previously attempted. No?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Latimore
United States
Arizona
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
Daemon6 wrote:
Snooches wrote:
You do know that if you fail a scenario and redo it without visiting Gloomhaven in between you would not suffer any effects from the road event on the second try, right?

So If you were to apply the effects for the Brute retroactivly he would be the only party member suffering them.

Personally I would go with Franks version, that you have to visit Gloomhaven to change party composition. That way you would have to do a new road event anyway that would effect all the party members the same way.


Correct me if I'm wrong on this but the RAW seem to indicate Road Events are only drawn and resolved while traveling to NEW unlinked Scenarios.

P41 rulebook under Traveling and Road Events

"In the case that players immediately travel to a new scenario, they must complete a road event before starting the new scenario unless they are playing the same scenario or the new scenario is linked to the previous scenario." (Underline mine)

The implication being a scenario that has not been previously attempted. No?


No, I'm pretty sure it means different than the one you're currently at.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.