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Subject: MYTH: Dungeons poll - How much would you pay for DIY content packs? rss

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Tobias Loeffler
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What is MYTH: Dungeons

MYTH: Dungeons combines thematic locations (like sewers, temples, crypts, etc.) with a card based event system, to bring the "true" dungeon crawler feeling to MYTH.

Each dungeon / location pack will consist of:

- 1 double-sided dungeon card
- 4 to 16 thematically matching tiles (depending on dungeon size)
- 4 to 12 realm object and matching rule cards to dress your dungeon
- scenario suggestions and or quest cards on how to use the location in MYTH.

When you purchase a dungeon pack, you'll receive everything ready to print in PDF / jpg form.

This is the current development thread: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1741222/myth-dungeons

To get an idea, if a project like this would even be doable (given the license issues can be worked out), I'd like to know, how much you'd be willing to pay for a pack like this!

Poll
How much would you pay for a "MYTH: Dungeon" download pack?
Are you insane? Nothing! You used to do this for free!
$5
$10
$15
$20
$25
I'd only be interested, if this came as a printed, finished product.
      75 answers
Poll created by nimmzwei


Thank you for voting!
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Riccardo Menozzi
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Some would argue that so far, all of Myth content is a bit DIY
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Michael Callahan
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I love this idea. The real issue is that most folks will want a printed version if they have to pay,.... the idea of paying for content; and then having to pay again to produce it in a form that will look halfway decent on the table is prohibitive to most people.

The trick would be seeing what MCG thought about this; and then what the tile art people have to say. Some of the art available for MapForge has the commercial component included; but we have yet to see exactly what that will look like. Alternatively; you could reach out to the artist directly; seeking a licensing arrangement.

It's something that I have thought about myself as an entry into game development and design. I have some game systems already in development; but have so far been looking to make my own property that would be independent of another game's IP.

MCG may be fine with this as it would promote sales of their game (if it gets reprinted); I guess you don't know until you ask.
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David Griffin
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I agree, it's kind of a grey area. Given the expense and effort it takes to craft a really good looking game from files (possibly even needing digital prep work to print on Artscow), you kind of want to know the result will be worth it.

In the case of cards, cards I can personally make do not match the quality of real cards. In sleeves they would be acceptable. Tiles I would make would probably not match the exact thickness of the existing tiles unless you really worked hard to find exactly the right chipboard.

To pay anything like what an actual game supplement would cost and then go to all the effort and expense to print it would be a hard sell.

I think the authors would be better off working out some kind of deal with Print and Play to let prospective players buy the thing off of their website and have it printed for them. And that might need permission of MCG.

I suspect lots of people who do buy PDFs don't end up crafting them. They buy them and find out how much work it is and decide to not do that again.
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W Wharton
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I don't know, these look promising but Paying even $5 seams like to much for a PDF. If MCG approves, I know that there is a lot of work that will have to be put in to this, and I really like your work, but I would not spend money for a PDF.

Still I love the idea, and would love to see more about your creation, it just might change my mind about spending!!!
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Tobias Loeffler
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Thanks for the feedback everybody! I've already written to Kenny, but my gut feeling tells me, that they have more than enough on their own plates.
I could see them endorsing a MYTH project, if they have zero work with it. They have been very, very generous in the past when it came to allowing fans to use their IP. There is even a guy selling metal MYTH treasure tokens and they are cool with it. Kudos to MCG!

The only way I see this getting printed atm is as an add-on to a MYTH-KS , but I will try to get more information on other possibilities.

Thanks everybody for your opinions, votes and support!
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Joe Scarborough
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Tobias,

I voted $5, but could be convinced to go $10. $5 - $10 for some solid Myth content would be great (depending on cost of DIY materials and time to build).

I agree that the DIY part would be tricky to sell people on. If you included a DIY guide (how to make tiles, best print options for cards (on your own printer or via print shop)) this might be an easier sell.

I do like the idea of having some community content added as a Myth KS add-on. I imagine that could require a lot of work on McG's part, and at only 20% take rate on add-ons, it might not be worth their time. (I'd love to see some dungeons and the community items pack done this way, though.)

As a DIY, though, you're targeting the True Myth Fans®, and DIYers. I'm not sure how many people fall into both categories (Venn diagram, anyone?). If you go forward, I'm game.
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Kristabelle Du Bast
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I voted 10, really would be happy to 15, pdf is good, I can print and make to my standard and not be paying postage and potentially import duties. Did seem a lot of tiles required, I would probably proxy a lot rather than make them.
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W Wharton
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After looking at the project more thoroughly I might pay $5-10 for it.

Sorry for my change of thought on prices.
 
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MM
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I think it depends on the number of tiles and how much it would cost me to make them properly. I'd want the tiles to have the same level of quality as the McG tiles. I don't know what this would cost, but suspect it will be far greater than what I'm willing to spend.

As for getting McG permission - what exactly are you asking their permission to do? Use the icons in your PSD template?? That's the only thing I can see them even having a legal claim.

As for McG making new tiles - I just don't see it. Not outside a KS. The only way this community is going to get additional variety in tiles is to either purchase other dungeon tiles on the market, or make our own. At least that's how I see it.
 
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Tobias Loeffler
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Mistermannindy wrote:
I think it depends on the number of tiles and how much it would cost me to make them properly. I'd want the tiles to have the same level of quality as the McG tiles. I don't know what this would cost, but suspect it will be far greater than what I'm willing to spend.

As for getting McG permission - what exactly are you asking their permission to do? Use the icons in your PSD template?? That's the only thing I can see them even having a legal claim.

As for McG making new tiles - I just don't see it. Not outside a KS. The only way this community is going to get additional variety in tiles is to either purchase other dungeon tiles on the market, or make our own. At least that's how I see it.


I'd estimate, that one double-sided tile like this costs around $3 to make (not including costs for the art)



You can go way cheaper, though, if you dial back on paper quality and finish (no varnish, no black-colored sides, etc.). And it still looks good:




EDIT: LOL, that was a copy / paste error with the image id...


While I'm really, really excited about the project of "MYTH: Dungeons", it seems, that without MCG stepping in, there is no way to offer this as a finished product (which most people want).

How will I move forward with this?

I will continue to work on my first, complete dungeon pack. You'll be able to download that here on BGG. It will contain all the cards and PSD overlay files for the art-pack I'm going to use. You'll then have to purchase the art-pack from the publisher, import the assets into the PSDs and print, cut and glue your own tiles.
Perhaps the whole tile creation-process can be speed up a bit when mapforge is released. If you don't care for the MYTH-gird and icons on the tile, many artpacks can be ordered as printed versions from
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/7523/Black-Scrolls-Ga...

I will focus on the art-packs from "Black Scrolls Games" for the time being.

Edit: Just heard back from BSG and they don't do commercial licenses.

Thanks again, everyone! Keep crawling...
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Tobias Loeffler
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BIG news everybody:

I've been emailing with Antal Kéninger, the artist and owner of http://www.blackscrollsgames.com and he gave his permission to use his tile art for the "MYTH: Dungeons" project for free!!!!!

This means, finished, mythified dungeon tiles in each Dungeon pack. No need for you to use Photoshop or Gimp or... just print and play! And did I mention, that it will be free?

If you can, please head over to www.blackscrollsgames.com and show your support! The dungeon tiles and maps are really top notch and might come in handy for your non-MYTH games as well. You can even purchase printed versions.

I'm really psyched about this!

Again: A big thanks to Antal and BSG for this generous move!

Now let's dungeon crawl!
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nimmzwei wrote:
BIG news everybody:

I've been emailing with Antal Kéninger, the artist and owner of http://www.blackscrollsgames.com and he gave his permission to use his tile art for the "MYTH: Dungeons" project for free!!!!!

This means, finished, mythified dungeon tiles in each Dungeon pack. No need for you to use Photoshop or Gimp or... just print and play! And did I mention, that it will be free?

If you can, please head over to www.blackscrollsgames.com and show your support! The dungeon tiles and maps are really top notch and might come in handy for your non-MYTH games as well. You can even purchase printed versions.

I'm really psyched about this!

Again: A big thanks to Antal and BSG for this generous move!

Now let's dungeon crawl!


Wow this guy is wining. I will definitely support Black scroll games. And you too Tobias you win! Good luck with the work my friend.
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Tobias Loeffler
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Malefacus wrote:
Good luck with the work my friend.


Thank you! The project is moving along nicely. Cards and tokens are 60% done.

What will take time is writing the rulebook. Although it is not complicated, there are quite a few moving parts with dungeon card, quest card, realm object cards and the whole process of randomly generating a dungeon...
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Daniel Davis
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I'd pay up to $25 for good looking, printed stuff. No problem. I do a lot of DIY printing and binding for games, and have no problem paying for someone else to do it!
 
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Daniel Davis
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Wow! People here are really cheap about what they think all of your time and stuff is worth.
 
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Tim Chase
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I don't think people are being cheap... in general, the feedback seems to be that people don't want to go through the trouble of DIY.
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Tobias Loeffler
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torva wrote:
I don't think people are being cheap... in general, the feedback seems to be that people don't want to go through the trouble of DIY.


Yeap, that's what I took away from this poll as well! With all the tiles (and tokens), though, I'm afraid there is no other way than DIY.

I think it's pretty awesome, that nearly 60 people have voted, considering how relatively small the BGG MYTH community is.

Thanks again @ all voters!
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MM
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nimmzwei wrote:
I think it's pretty awesome, that nearly 60 people have voted, considering how relatively small the BGG MYTH community is.


For perspective - that's about 1/2 of the votes collected for the BGG story competition 2 years ago - at arguably the height of Myth interest here in BGG. Nice job, Tobi!
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Daniel Davis
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torva wrote:
I don't think people are being cheap... in general, the feedback seems to be that people don't want to go through the trouble of DIY.


I see. Maybe I misread it.
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