Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

Tenkatoitsu» Forums » Rules

Subject: Multiple defenders Combat Resolution (Example 11.1) rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Australia
flag msg tools
badge
4.6 Five Mississippi
Avatar
mbmbmb
In the rules Example 11.1 shows a combination of possibilities on how to assign attackers to make sure all defenders are attacked. For example:

Y1 + Y2 attack A, X attacks B



When it comes to resolving combat:

Do we roll the dice separately for each attack?
(i.e. 1 roll for Y1 + Y2 attack A and 1 roll for Y1X attacks B" and apply the modifiers for each? If so how does the Rout and damage to 'all other defenders' work?

Alternatively do we just roll once and apply all relevant modifiers into one big combat result?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
junkers doll
msg tools
Each attack is a separate instance of combat, so you roll for them separately.

"dXy" on the CRT specifically refers to "all other defending units". As there is only one defender in each instance, the "r" part of "dRr" is ignored.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Australia
flag msg tools
badge
4.6 Five Mississippi
Avatar
mbmbmb
junkers wrote:
Each attack is a separate instance of combat, so you roll for them separately.

"dXy" on the CRT specifically refers to "all other defending units". As there is only one defender in each instance, the "r" part of "dRr" is ignored.


I don't understand a circumstance to which this would be a thing, unless a kata kata or something similar. Surely there is no reason to attack multiple defenders unless you are forced to attack and out numbered?

Further then does Rout effect other defenders in that single attack, or defenders in the overall attack, or other clan members whether defending or not?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
junkers doll
msg tools
anthonii wrote:
Surely there is no reason to attack multiple defenders unless you are forced to attack and out numbered?
What if your sole attacking unit (in Attack mode and Good Condition) has Elan and Masse equal to the combined two defenders, but they are both Exhausted and in Regroup mode? And it's a non-obligatory attack? And you have Leadership? That's a hell of a lot of Combat Modifiers pushing the odds in your favour.

Just because there are two physical units there doesn't mean they are necessarily equal to or even stronger than one unit.

anthonii wrote:
Further then does Rout effect other defenders in that single attack, or defenders in the overall attack, or other clan members whether defending or not?
A rout is a check against a clan. Even if only one unit of a clan is attacked and then routed, all units of that clan - anywhere on the map, it doesn't matter if they were involved in that instance of combat or not - still have to make a rout check.
3 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Australia
flag msg tools
badge
4.6 Five Mississippi
Avatar
mbmbmb
Thanks for the responses.
1 
 Thumb up
0.50
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
junkers doll
msg tools
No worries. Whilst I'm relatively certain I've got the nuts and bolts of it right, I've become just as confused as you about why that penalty exists now that you've pointed it out.

As wargamers we're so used to throwing multiple attackers against a single defender in order to increase our chances of obliterating it (or at least making its retreat impossible), but here this game appears to be handing out a bonus to single attackers for going up against multiple units.

I think that it's meant to indicate how, like in my example above, even a very powerful unit in a good position would only make such an attack against multiple defenders in an instance where they're swinging at lame ducks. And so to replicate the overwhelming force brought to bear against them, there's this "bonus" for repulsing multiple weaker defenders.

At least that's my very possibly incorrect interpretation of the how. I'd love to see the design rationale for why these bonuses are here.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francois Vander Meulen
France
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is correct. Thanks !

Quote:
why that penalty exists


What penalty are you referring to ?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
junkers doll
msg tools
Penalty for the defender, bonus for the attacker - I guess my wording could have been a lot clearer.

So you're saying that my rules interpretation and guess about why that rule is in effect are both correct?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francois Vander Meulen
France
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
junkers wrote:
Each attack is a separate instance of combat, so you roll for them separately.

"dXy" on the CRT specifically refers to "all other defending units". As there is only one defender in each instance, the "r" part of "dRr" is ignored.


This is correct.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francois Vander Meulen
France
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
junkers wrote:
Penalty for the defender, bonus for the attacker


Sorry! I am still unsure. What bonuses and what penalty are we talking about ?blush
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
junkers doll
msg tools
Sorry for the late reply, Francois - been away from the internets for a bit.

I just meant that the defender seems to be penalized in certain instances of combat; or, to put it another way, that the attacker seems to have the odds stacked in their favour in certain instances.

As anthonii pointed out, it's very rare that a lone attacker would be going up against multiple defenders; and I assumed that they would do so only when they can be certain of victory. The way dXy results (emphasis on that bolded part) work seem to help that along a bit, hence why I chose the phrases bonuses/pentalties.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francois Vander Meulen
France
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
it's very rare that a lone attacker would be going up against multiple defenders;


I am not sure I agree. Unless you have very carefully chosen the terrain, it is quite common to have an attacker facing 2 or more enemies.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.