Wayne Koenig
Taiwan
Dan Shui
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Hello Everyone,



This is my game Stained Glass Window

Players 2-4
Time: 30-45 Minutes
Ages: 8+

-----

Game Play
As a painter from the Renaissance you have been tasked with painting the last window of the city cathedral. You will be laying down paint tiles to create a beautiful looking window (game board), as well as using the assistance of your apprentice to help you.

Items Needed

- One page of color tiles per player (potential of 4 total.)
- 48 renown tokens (12 Red, 12 Yellow, 12 Green, and 12 Blue)
- 4 Pawns to act as your apprentice.

Unique Aspect(s)
You score points equal to renown tokens still in the general supply, multiplied by renown of that color in your personal supply.

PnP Files and Rules can be found at
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bx6Zkw7ocrvaMnMwWTdS...

---

If you would like to give feedback...
- How many people you played with, and what the point totals were?
- Does the game make sense with little illustration?
- Anything else that you would like to contribute would be awesome.

Thanks Everyone.

God Bless,
Wayne

------

[April 4,2017] 2.0 Rules Uploaded!

Changed a major aspect to how the renown tokens scoring works. It is now possible to "reset" the renown score, forcing players to potentially give up previously received renown.

[January 6, 2018] 3.4 rules have been added.

I was gone from BGG for a while. Game now has an apprentice that fixes a lot of old issues. Also, wilds are now gone, and the game length has been reduced
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Wayne Koenig
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Re: Stained Glass Windows: Tile laying game about building a cathedral window. (2-4 Players)
I updated the rules to have 2 pictures. I am hoping that this will make it a little bit more clear for tile placement, and score.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ay5gdY9_Lmk34mYklSrPlWr1iL...
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JK
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Re: Stained Glass Windows: Tile laying game about building a cathedral window. (2-4 Players)
Hi Wayne, welcome to the contest. I really like your theme.

As per the contest rules, can you please edit your top post to include a link to the contest thread as well as a list of which prize categories you want your game to be entered in.

Thanks!
JK
 
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Kathryn D
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Re: Stained Glass Windows: Tile laying game about building a cathedral window. (2-4 Players)
I curious are you talking about doing glass painting on a stained glass window or making a stained glass window? The rules should probably reflect one or the other reality not an ambiguous half way between state. Time the tiles look like an abstract stained glass window but the rules are leaning more to the fine painting work done on church windows but mixes the phrasing which is just confusing.
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Wayne Koenig
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Re: Stained Glass Windows: Tile laying game about building a cathedral window. (2-4 Players)
JohnKean wrote:
Hi Wayne, welcome to the contest. I really like your theme.

As per the contest rules, can you please edit your top post to include a link to the contest thread as well as a list of which prize categories you want your game to be entered in.

Thanks!
JK


Ok thanks for letting me know. I might just try and create a new forum post for it.

KatAstraFe wrote:
I curious are you talking about doing glass painting on a stained glass window or making a stained glass window? The rules should probably reflect one or the other reality not an ambiguous half way between state. Time the tiles look like an abstract stained glass window but the rules are leaning more to the fine painting work done on church windows but mixes the phrasing which is just confusing.


That is a good point. I will get this fixed later today. Thank you for the advice.
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Wayne Koenig
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Re: Stained Glass Windows [Moved to WIP]
I have moved this thread to the WIP section. It made it easier for the contest that this game is currently entered in.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25459643#25459643
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Wayne Koenig
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New rule book. Made turns quicker, and made it so that players could be more involved when it is not their turn. Would love some feedback if you have the chance.
 
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Martin Windischer
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Is the asymetrical use of the colours for the tiles on purpose?

For example look at the three tiles which are blue on one half (and the other half consists of 2 different colours).
Of the six remaining quarters 2 are red, 2 are yellow and 2 are green.

But if you look at the three tiles with a green half the remaining space consists of 1 red, 2 blue and 3 yellow quarters.
 
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Wayne Koenig
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MartinWin wrote:
Is the asymetrical use of the colours for the tiles on purpose?

For example look at the three tiles which are blue on one half (and the other half consists of 2 different colours).
Of the six remaining quarters 2 are red, 2 are yellow and 2 are green.

But if you look at the three tiles with a green half the remaining space consists of 1 red, 2 blue and 3 yellow quarters.


If I understand your question correctly, the answer is yes. Originally I had one of each tile, but that quickly led to their being WAY to many tiles.

I had to scale back, so what I decided to do, was just make sure that there are small squares are all evenly distributed, and that each color has a full half.

Does that answer your question?
 
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Martin Windischer
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Not really. There are more natural selection for the tiles.
For the following text I use some text code for the tiles, where I give each quarter a letter, depending on its colour. I start with the left quarter and advance clockwise. The first tile in your pdf would be (RYGB), the second one (GGYR).

In your tiles you have both GGYB and GGBY, but there is neither GGRB nor GGBR.
The "blue" tiles on the other hand are balanced: you have BBYG, BBRY and BBGR.

If I were to create the tiles I would do them all in the "balanced" way. So no colour stands out (after all, who knows; maybe your distribution leads to the situation that it's harder (or easier) to obtain the blue favor tokens):

Instead of YYRB I would have YYGB
Instead of RRBG I would have RRBY
And instead of GGYB I would have GGRB
Additionally I would now mirror all the tiles with green halfs (this step is not as important as the other steps but I would want to have the tileset as symmetric as possible)

These are the changes I would highly recommend.

Next are some thoughts which maybe changes the game a little bit. I understand if you don't want to use them but I write them anyway:

The 5 remaining tiles are of two families:
RYGB, RGYB and RYBG out of a family of 6 tiles (the mirror images are missing)
YYBB and RRGG also out of a family of 6 tiles

If it were me I would probably discard one of these families and complete the other one. Probably I would discard the family with all different colours, as we already have the start tile as a member of this family. Also, the tiles from the first family aren't as interesting for the player, as they all look very similar on the first glance.
This would result in one additional tile.
(Remove RYGB, RGYB and RYBG; add YYGG, YYRR, BBGG and BBRR)

And after this all, here is a completely different idea: Instead of going for a high amount of symmetry between the colours, maybe it's an idea to do the opposite: Let the colours be very assymetrical on purpose. If there are much more blue quarters than yellow quarters it changes the values of the favor tokens from the start of the game. This way you have to do some meaningful decisions even at the first move.
I haven't tested this idea so feel free to ignore it but I think it should work well with your game (of course you would have to adjust the amount of favor token of the different colours).
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Wayne Koenig
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OK, I see what you are getting at. I don’t have time to look at all the tiles right now, but I will this weekend.

To answer your question a bit more throughly, originally each player had 30+ tiles or so. This had a lot of issues, the main one being the game took too long, and the favor tokens depleted to quickly.

From play testing (30 times or so), I haven’t really noticed a problem with one color being “more powerful” than another. The goal was just to have 3 halves of each color, and then make sure that the corners had an even distribution of colors.

As for the “family” of all the colors, the reason it exists is to have players being able to close more sections. I found through test, that players HATE to take a turn where they can’t close a section. It leads to people staring at the board and not actually taking a turn.

Again, thank you for the advice, I will look over it this weekend and see what switching the colors around would do for the overall experience.
 
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Jean-François Collumeau
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I've played a couple of rounds of this game (4 to be precise) in a two player setting.

The theme is great, and placing the tiles gives a very esthethic result. Lots of love for this thumbsup

There were some interesting tactical choices about placing a single tile or making combos to get more points and or a more interesting color with respect to the remaining favor tokens. We got engrossed quite quickly.

However, the game remains somehow lacking in competition in a two player game as there are not enough apprentices on the board to make choosing where to place a tile a dilema. I'm waiting quite impatiently to have enough people around to check it out with four painters

MartinWin wrote:
Not really. There are more natural selection for the tiles.

[...]

And after this all, here is a completely different idea: Instead of going for a high amount of symmetry between the colours, maybe it's an idea to do the opposite: Let the colours be very assymetrical on purpose.


I'd be curious as how Martin's suggestions impact the game. One might consider, in addition, that having asymetrical quantities of favor token reserves with symetrical color tiles could possibly lead to gameplay similar to having asymetrical color tiles with symetrical amounts of favor tokens. The advantage of the former being the ability to have both original and asymetrical game modes available with the same tiles.
 
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Wayne Koenig
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sixthfloor wrote:
I've played a couple of rounds of this game (4 to be precise) in a two player setting.

The theme is great, and placing the tiles gives a very esthethic result. Lots of love for this thumbsup

There were some interesting tactical choices about placing a single tile or making combos to get more points and or a more interesting color with respect to the remaining favor tokens. We got engrossed quite quickly.

However, the game remains somehow lacking in competition in a two player game as there are not enough apprentices on the board to make choosing where to place a tile a dilema. I'm waiting quite impatiently to have enough people around to check it out with four painters


Many thanks to you. I am glad that you enjoyed. I agree with what you are saying about 2 players. That is part of the reason that I implimented the rule,

Quote:
"...if your Apprentice is still on the board at the start of your turn, remove you Apprentice and grab a forth paint tile from your Palette that you may use this turn."


That said, 2 player still does lack the interaction of 3 and 4 players.

Curious, did you happen to feel like start player had an advantage? This is something that has come up, and I am trying to figure out if I need to spend more time on it.

 
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Jean-François Collumeau
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Orwe11 wrote:

Curious, did you happen to feel like start player had an advantage? This is something that has come up, and I am trying to figure out if I need to spend more time on it.


We didn't feel the starting player had much of an advantage. The only thing is, the first player has a slightly higher chance to place his last tile down first. Since the rules for the end of the game allow other players to place one last tile (and not play a full last turn) once this happens, other players might lose points due to tiles still being in hand. On the other hand, allowing a full last turn would encourage everyone to place as much tiles as possiblen which I guess is the reason the rules allow only a single tile.

I personally feel that if the starting player has any starting advantage it is minimal due to other players being easily able to overtake him during the game. I'm still talking from a 2 player perspective though, not having had the occasion of playing with more.
 
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Wayne Koenig
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sixthfloor wrote:

We didn't feel the starting player had much of an advantage. The only thing is, the first player has a slightly higher chance to place his last tile down first. Since the rules for the end of the game allow other players to place one last tile (and not play a full last turn) once this happens, other players might lose points due to tiles still being in hand. On the other hand, allowing a full last turn would encourage everyone to place as much tiles as possiblen which I guess is the reason the rules allow only a single tile.

I personally feel that if the starting player has any starting advantage it is minimal due to other players being easily able to overtake him during the game. I'm still talking from a 2 player perspective though, not having had the occasion of playing with more.


OK good. Thank you for your feedback.
 
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Wayne Koenig
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Made some changes to the rules for 3.5

For those that played 3.4, here are the changes.

1. The number of favor tokens has been increased to 15 from 12. This change will only affect 3-4 player games.

2. When someone plays adjacent to your apprentice, you grab another tile (rather than a favor token.) Similarly if your turn starts and your apprentice is still on the board, you may grab a favor token of your choosing.

3. When someone places their last tile, everyone else gets one last turn. After each other player has played, the player who triggered the end game may grab one favor token of their choosing.

4. When you complete a section, you count how many tiles were already on the board. You score that number of favor tokens.

——-

I think these are all of the changes I made. If you have any questions, or fixes, please let me know. Thank you in advanced for all your help.

God Bless,
Wayne
 
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Perry Kleinhenz
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This seems like a really neat game! The way player's can choose between pushing the game to end vs scoring more points is cool and the way the scoring works seems pretty interesting as well, I'm curious to see how it plays out in practice.

Some comments/questions I have after reading the rules

When taking favor tokens after completing an area do I take a number equal to how many total tiles were on the board before I placed or how many tiles there were of the corresponding color?

Also I understand there's probably a reason you don't count the tile you just placed but I think that's a bit confusing since it runs counter to how many other tile laying games score points (like Carcassonne).

If I play the last tile from my palette on my turn and complete an area do I get to take favor tokens or does my turn just end?
 
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pkleinhe wrote:
This seems like a really neat game! The way player's can choose between pushing the game to end vs scoring more points is cool and the way the scoring works seems pretty interesting as well, I'm curious to see how it plays out in practice.


Thank you, I do hope if you get a chance to play it that you will enjoy it.

pkleinhe wrote:
When taking favor tokens after completing an area do I take a number equal to how many total tiles were on the board before I placed or how many tiles there were of the corresponding color?


How many were already on the board of that color. You do not factor in the tile that you played.

pkleinhe wrote:
Also I understand there's probably a reason you don't count the tile you just placed but I think that's a bit confusing since it runs counter to how many other tile laying games score points (like Carcassonne).


The reason I have kept the scoring the way it is is components. I want it to be rare for all the favor tokens to run out and if your grab more favor tokens, then that means that I would need to add more favor tokens to the game.

The other reason (and probably a bigger reason) is points. I don’t really want scores to be super high. I average out at like 20-60 depending on the number of players which is kinda where I want to keep it, as I feel it fits the book of the game.

I do see what you are saying though. In 3.4 I actually had a rule that made it so the most you could score was 2 favor (section 3 or bigger) and usually only 1 favor (section of two.) There are reasons, I didn’t like this, mainly players are not incentivized to make bigger grouping.

All that said, I am not married to the mechanic. I could be persuaded toward the Carcassonne idea as long as it fits the game. I just haven’t found a reason to change it.

pkleinhe wrote:
If I play the last tile from my palette on my turn and complete an area do I get to take favor tokens or does my turn just end?


Your turn does not just end, you do get to grab favor tokens.

Thank you for your questions, and if you have anymore thoughts or questions, please let me know.
 
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