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Martians: A Story of Civilization» Forums » Rules

Subject: MOVEMENT OF THE EXCAVATION MACHINE rss

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RedImp Games
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When moving the excavation machine, player needs to move it towards the nearest unrevealed excavation token! Such a movement must not increase the distance between the excavation machine and the nearest unrevealed excavation token. On the contrary, if only it is possible, that distance has to be decreased. In other words, maintaining the same distance between the excavation machine and the nearest excavation token is also forbidden, unless it is impossible to get the machine closer to it. It there is several unrevealed excavation tokens in the same distance from the excavation machine, then the player gets to choose towards which of them the excavation machine is moved. When all the excavation tokens are revealed, player may move the excavation machine in any direction. Below there are several examples of valid and invalid moves.


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Oliver Kinne
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I'd disagree slightly with the first picture.

Moving up isn't allowed in the situation in the first picture - so the red cross on the arrow going up is correct.

However, moving to the side does not increase the distance to an unrevealed hex. At the beginning of the move there is one revealed hex between the excavation machine and the nearest unrevealed hex. If you move to the right, there is still only one revealed hex between the excavation machine and the nearest unrevealed hex.

So I'd say moving to the right is a valid move in the situation shown in the first picture - so the red cross on the right arrows is wrong - there should be a green tick.
 
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Oliver Kinne
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To add to my comment, I'd say in the second and third picture all moves are valid too. So all should have a green tick.

Again, before the move there is one revealed tile between the machine and the nearest unrevealed tile. After the move there is still only one revealed tile between the machine and the (new) nearest unrevealed tile.
 
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Oliver Kinne
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And before everyone shouts "How can you disagree with the makers of the game?" - I just wanted to explain how I have interpreted the rules - and in fact I think my interpretation feels more "natural" and more in line with the game.
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Skolo
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Still have no clue how it works
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Alan
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oliverkinne wrote:
However, moving to the side does not increase the distance to an unrevealed hex. At the beginning of the move there is one revealed hex between the excavation machine and the nearest unrevealed hex. If you move to the right, there is still only one revealed hex between the excavation machine and the nearest unrevealed hex.

There's an unrevealed hex to the left. Moving to the right would increase the distance to that hex. Therefore the movement is not allowed.
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Justin J
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The rules state you are to move the machine closer to an unrevealed tile. While the movements you think are legal do not increase the distance to the urevealed tiles, it does violate the rule that the machine is not moving towards the unrevealed tiles.
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Oliver Kinne
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CaveHinds wrote:
The rules state you are to move the machine closer to an unrevealed tile. While the movements you think are legal do not increase the distance to the urevealed tiles, it does violate the rule that the machine is not moving towards the unrevealed tiles.


I've not got the rules in front of me right now, but as far as I recall you are allowed to maintain the distance to unrevealed tiles. You don't have to reduce the distance.
 
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Justin J
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You might be right on the rules - I don't have them in front me of either. But the game designer just stated:

Quote:

When moving the excavation machine, player needs to move it towards the nearest unrevealed excavation token.
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Oliver Kinne
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oliverkinne wrote:
CaveHinds wrote:
The rules state you are to move the machine closer to an unrevealed tile. While the movements you think are legal do not increase the distance to the urevealed tiles, it does violate the rule that the machine is not moving towards the unrevealed tiles.


I've not got the rules in front of me right now, but as far as I recall you are allowed to maintain the distance to unrevealed tiles. You don't have to reduce the distance.


OK, just downloaded the rules PDF.

So the rules say: "The player may not move the excavation machine in a direction that increases its distance from the excavation tokens lying facedown on the board."

That's pretty much all it stipulates.

However, the picture in the rulebook is the same as the first picture in this post - clearly disallowing the move to the right.

Yet, reading the rules, I'd still stay the move to the right is allowed. I would go by the distance to the nearest facedown token at the start of the move versus the distance to the nearest facedown token after the move. If that distance is the same or lower, it should be a valid move.

That's how we've played it and it works quite well. Otherwise you end up with too many faceup, but unused tokens near the top of the board that will never be excavated, because you're constantly having to move down.

Anyway, that's just my opinion of course.
 
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Oliver Kinne
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CaveHinds wrote:
You might be right on the rules - I don't have them in front me of either. But the game designer just stated:

Quote:

When moving the excavation machine, player needs to move it towards the nearest unrevealed excavation token.


Yes, that's what I mean though. I disagree with Red Imp - which I know is basically saying that I suggest a variation to the rules, i.e. my own house rules.

However, I think the original rulebook is quite confusing, at least in my opinion, so you have to try and interpret them in the way the game feels like it should be played - based on its theme and other play mechanics.

So I'd still say it should be valid to move the excavation machine in such a way that distance is unchanged. That feels more natural and in keeping with the spirit of the game in my opinion.
 
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Justin J
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I don't even think it's a big issue really. The only exception being probably competitive play.
 
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RedImp Games
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We added:
On the contrary, if only it is possible, that distance has to be decreased. In other words, maintaining the same distance between the excavation machine and the nearest excavation token is also forbidden, unless it is impossible to get the machine closer to it.
 
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ScalpHell
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Thanks for the explanation
Can you tell us why you have done a move rule so "complicated"?
During your tests, What reason did you find that require such rules?
Just to know
Thanks by advance!
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farhan qureshi
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I believe the wordings are unnecessarily confusing a lot of players: as I understand RedImp, as long as you move to a location that decreases your distance to one of the unrevealed tokens you are allowed that move. That is why the move to the right in the 1st picture is NOT allowed, as it increases the distance to the unrevealed tokens on the left without getting close to any others, whereas the moves to the right in the 3rd picture are allowed, since there is an unrevealed token on the top right.

But, yes, it didn't need to be this mathematical.
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Joshua Farmer
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Living and working on Mars is complicated.
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Skolo
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farshaz wrote:
I believe the wordings are unnecessarily confusing a lot of players: as I understand RedImp, as long as you move to a location that decreases your distance to one of the unrevealed tokens you are allowed that move. That is why the move to the right in the 1st picture is NOT allowed, as it increases the distance to the unrevealed tokens on the left without getting close to any others, whereas the moves to the right in the 3rd picture are allowed, since there is an unrevealed token on the top right.

But, yes, it didn't need to be this mathematical.


Oh wow. Now i got it
Thanks
 
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Steel Breeze
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Unless I'm mistaken (or you research the 'long arm' tech advance), you can 'never' excavate the leftmost tile at the top. Putting it in other words, as soon as you reveal it, you can 'never' move onto it as it would not decrease the distance to an unrevealed tile. Now while I say 'never' I do know the rule that if all the tiles are revealed (very unlikely I believe), you can move anywhere. I would also bet this would affect the bottom most right side tile for the same reason. Am I right about these tiles?
 
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Delith Malistar
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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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farshaz wrote:
...As long as you move to a location that decreases your distance to one of the unrevealed tokens you are allowed that move.


This is the best, most concise explanation I have seen yet. Why RedImp makes it so long winded is beyond me.
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David Griffin
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Maybe the rule should be move any way the player wishes to. If it gets to a hex which has been removed, it may get 1 regolith from that empty hex (it's digging deeper). Since this isn't particular a good thing, the players will probably learn to not do that very often. See how easy that is, move it anywhere you like. No special rules. No diagrams.
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M. S.
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I still do not get it why in the first picture it is not allowed to move to the right.
Yes, moving to the left decreases the distance to the unrevealed spots on the left side but also increase the diatance to the unrevealed spot on the lower left side below the 1 regolith and 2 ice marker.

so I also think he first pictur it should be allowed to go to the right side.

Or did I miss something?
 
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Delith Malistar
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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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Braz wrote:
I still do not get it why in the first picture it is not allowed to move to the right.
Yes, moving to the left decreases the distance to the unrevealed spots on the legt side but also increase the diatance to the unrevealed spot on the lower left side below the 1 regolith and 2 ice marker.

so I also think he first pictur it should be allowed to go to the right side.

Or did I miss something?


I emphasised where you are getting mixed up. The rules never state a but also so don't think that way. It's simply "Yes, moving to the left decreases the distance to the unrevealed spots on the left side."

Throw out all other definitions mentioned and just use the Rule

Quote:
"As long as you move to a location that decreases your distance to even one of the unrevealed tokens you are allowed that move."
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David Griffin
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In other words, don't move somewhere where there is a dead end ahead.
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M. S.
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Malistar22 wrote:
Braz wrote:
I still do not get it why in the first picture it is not allowed to move to the right.
Yes, moving to the left decreases the distance to the unrevealed spots on the legt side but also increase the diatance to the unrevealed spot on the lower left side below the 1 regolith and 2 ice marker.

so I also think he first pictur it should be allowed to go to the right side.

Or did I miss something?


I emphasised where you are getting mixed up. The rules never state a but also so don't think that way. It's simply "Yes, moving to the left decreases the distance to the unrevealed spots on the left side."

Throw out all other definitions mentioned and just use the Rule

Quote:
"As long as you move to a location that decreases your distance to even one of the unrevealed tokens you are allowed that move."


so is the example in picture 1 correct or can I move to the right side?
If I cannot move to the right side, why is it not allowed?
 
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Geoff Speare
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tee hee, that tickles!!!
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Braz wrote:
Malistar22 wrote:
Braz wrote:
I still do not get it why in the first picture it is not allowed to move to the right.
Yes, moving to the left decreases the distance to the unrevealed spots on the legt side but also increase the diatance to the unrevealed spot on the lower left side below the 1 regolith and 2 ice marker.

so I also think he first pictur it should be allowed to go to the right side.

Or did I miss something?


I emphasised where you are getting mixed up. The rules never state a but also so don't think that way. It's simply "Yes, moving to the left decreases the distance to the unrevealed spots on the left side."

Throw out all other definitions mentioned and just use the Rule

Quote:
"As long as you move to a location that decreases your distance to even one of the unrevealed tokens you are allowed that move."


so is the example in picture 1 correct or can I move to the right side?
If I cannot move to the right side, why is it not allowed?


When moving to the right, which unrevealed token is getting closer? I don't see one, so I think that move is not allowed.
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