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Subject: Thoughts/Questions about Expansions and Nodes rss

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Billy Crawford - Greybeard
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As much as I want just about everything there is for this game, I realize that just unrealistic for me. What I have focused on is the monstrous expansions. I really dig the style of most of them, but even looking at that route of expansions that leaves a huge amount of them out there. Especially for Node 3.

What is bothering me right now is that some of the new expansions do not have a node as of yet. Namely, the Nightmare Ram. And I'm SUPER stoked about this guy, but I really don't want to see him land in Node 3, not when there are so many other awesome creatures out there to fill in Node 3 (Dung Beetle Knight, Dragon King, Sunstalker, Griffin - I'm sure I'm missing some).

Has anyone heard anything about the nightmare ram that I may have missed? Thoughts on this guy? I really want to see him land in Node 2.

I've tried to look at 2 expansions for each node (except 4 and 5), because even though I plan to play the crap out of the game (both solo and group), I don't see needing more variation than that.

What I'm looking at is:
Node 1 - Honeycomb Weaver and Gorm (i really dig the frogdog armor design, so this might even be a go)
Node 2 - Oblivion Mosquito (hoping for Nightmare Ram to fit here)
Node 3 - Sunstalker, Dragon King, Honeycomb Weaver (maybe Griffin - this node has the most options)
Node 4 - Red Witches (maybe manhunter, but probably not because of the 2 new nemesis' in GC)
Node 5 - Screaming God (Ivory Dragon isn't doing it for me, and honestly I don't even know if I want a node 5, but I really like the screaming god)

And then there is the Lion God/Silver City expansions.... I mean that adds a whole new story like for the 2nd 1/2 of a campaign. Then there is abyssal woods and mountain man... what, I can't handle this!!!

I haven't seen alot of buzz for the Honeycomb Weaver. The armor design seems kinda lame but that it fits 2 nodes seems like a lot of bang for the buck, plus it may add encounters with the nightmare bees (this is all in my head though, no idea if it's a real thing). I wouldn't even bother with Gorm, but a 2 year wait for the other node 1 monsters it almost seems like Gorm is a necessity.

The setup I'm going with gives me 3 campaign options, maybe 4 if I get the griffin. Then 2 node 1 options (maybe 3 if i get frogdog), 1 (maybe 2) node 2 options, too many node 3 options, 3 Node 4 options (i imagine it will be a blast to run a bunch of nemesis monsters at once in a campaign). To me that feels like eternal replayability.

I'd like thoughts on each of these rambling paragraphs, especially about nightmare ram. Additionally, I'm not overly worried about cost, not because I'm rich or anything, just because I sold off my old collectible PS1 and PS2 video game collection to fund this.
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Amy (Other Amy)
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Honestly, I think people are putting way too much emphasis on the node system given how little information we have about it as of yet. I think Adam is adding the node system just to give people guidance as he continues to add expansions with an eye to having approximately four to five core game's worth of overall material (the Plain of Faces, Inverted Mountain, Abyssal Woods, and whatever is going on with the Ringtail Fox). Also, we have to remember that these concepts are still in development. They haven't been pegged to nodes because difficulty and game stage for each of the new expansions may slide up and down a bit as specifics are added or removed.

The core game breaks out (as best I can tell as a newcomer) into early to mid-game monsters and mid to late game monsters (with a lot of overlap) and a final boss. Here's how I think of the new quarries:

Early:
Frogdog
Honeycomb Weaver
Oblivion Mosquito

Mid:
Nightmare Ram (maybe early? Early mid game?)
Black Knight
Gryphon

Late/Final:
Silver City (I don't think this is going to make Lion God easier.)
Screaming God
Ivory Dragon

(Nemesis will have their own schedule; I'm not awake enough to guess right now. Inverted Mountain and Abyssal Woods are their own ecosystem and likewise I'm not awake enough to do that at the moment.)

As to recommendations, you seem to have a pretty good handle on what you're proposing. I personally love the idea of a bee keeping monster in HCW, but hate the mini. There are encounters included in that expansion. You've got SS and DK, so as far as replayability goes, you're all set from what I understand.
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Gorm is amazing, don't skip it
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Billy Crawford - Greybeard
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amyotheramy wrote:
Honestly, I think people are putting way too much emphasis on the node system given how little information we have about it as of yet. I think Adam is adding the node system just to give people guidance as he continues to add expansions with an eye to having approximately four to five core game's worth of overall material (the Plain of Faces, Inverted Mountain, Abyssal Woods, and whatever is going on with the Ringtail Fox). Also, we have to remember that these concepts are still in development. They haven't been pegged to nodes because difficulty and game stage for each of the new expansions may slide up and down a bit as specifics are added or removed.

The core game breaks out (as best I can tell as a newcomer) into early to mid-game monsters and mid to late game monsters (with a lot of overlap) and a final boss. Here's how I think of the new quarries:

Early:
Frogdog
Honeycomb Weaver
Oblivion Mosquito

Mid:
Nightmare Ram (maybe early? Early mid game?)
Black Knight
Gryphon

Late/Final:
Silver City (I don't think this is going to make Lion God easier.)
Screaming God
Ivory Dragon

(Nemesis will have their own schedule; I'm not awake enough to guess right now. Inverted Mountain and Abyssal Woods are their own ecosystem and likewise I'm not awake enough to do that at the moment.)

As to recommendations, you seem to have a pretty good handle on what you're proposing. I personally love the idea of a bee keeping monster in HCW, but hate the mini. There are encounters included in that expansion. You've got SS and DK, so as far as replayability goes, you're all set from what I understand.


Yeah, your sectioning off of the game makes more sense than me trying to wrap my head around these nodes. Thanks for that!

Also, I didn't read much on the black knight. Is he a quarry? My brain immediately thought he was a nemesis.
 
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Amy (Other Amy)
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He's a one shot quarry - you seek him out, although he won't fight you unless you're worthy. (One shot if you kill him; I'm assuming if you fail you can try again.)
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André Silveira
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amyotheramy wrote:
Honestly, I think people are putting way too much emphasis on the node system given how little information we have about it as of yet. I think Adam is adding the node system just to give people guidance as he continues to add expansions with an eye to having approximately four to five core game's worth of overall material (the Plain of Faces, Inverted Mountain, Abyssal Woods, and whatever is going on with the Ringtail Fox). Also, we have to remember that these concepts are still in development. They haven't been pegged to nodes because difficulty and game stage for each of the new expansions may slide up and down a bit as specifics are added or removed.

The core game breaks out (as best I can tell as a newcomer) into early to mid-game monsters and mid to late game monsters (with a lot of overlap) and a final boss. Here's how I think of the new quarries:

Early:
Frogdog
Honeycomb Weaver
Oblivion Mosquito

Mid:
Nightmare Ram (maybe early? Early mid game?)
Black Knight
Gryphon

Late/Final:
Silver City (I don't think this is going to make Lion God easier.)
Screaming God
Ivory Dragon

(Nemesis will have their own schedule; I'm not awake enough to guess right now. Inverted Mountain and Abyssal Woods are their own ecosystem and likewise I'm not awake enough to do that at the moment.)

As to recommendations, you seem to have a pretty good handle on what you're proposing. I personally love the idea of a bee keeping monster in HCW, but hate the mini. There are encounters included in that expansion. You've got SS and DK, so as far as replayability goes, you're all set from what I understand.


I realy like how small animals are early: frog, mosquito, bee and lion(?)
Medium animals are mid: antilope, lamb (ram)
Large animals are late: gryphon, Phoenix, LionGod, Dragon...
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Shelby Babb
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In recent versions of Dungeons & Dragons, there's a concept of a "Challenge Rating" or "Encounter Level".

Basically the idea is that you have a party of X Level, and there's a set of monsters/encounters/challenges that would be fun to play against at that level. A level 1 party fights a CR 1 orc, a level 20 party fights a CR 20 orc god. It's not entirely accurate or reliable, but serves as a starting point when building encounters.

I figure nodes are something similar: it gives players who want a more random set of fights some options to choose from, but lets players know that sending a starting band of survivors to tackle... say... a Lion God is probably a mistake.

It's less of a necessary mechanic when you only have one monster for each stage of the game, or bundle them all into a scripted campaign ("first you fight the Lion, -then- the Lion God"). But as options increase, and people see potential for creating their -own- campaigns (e.g. "The Menagerie" is nothing but animal themed foes), some sort of ranking system will prove handy to have.
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Crimsonsun God
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phaelen2003 wrote:


Has anyone heard anything about the nightmare ram that I may have missed? Thoughts on this guy? I really want to see him land in Node 2.


During the campaign it was said that he is node 3, now of all the expansions this one seems to be the most complete in terms of content so I'd put more faith in that remaining as is more than I would the later announced expansions though its all subject to and very likely to change in multiple places.

Quote:

What I'm looking at is:
Node 1 - Honeycomb Weaver and Gorm (i really dig the frogdog armor design, so this might even be a go)
Node 2 - Oblivion Mosquito (hoping for Nightmare Ram to fit here)
Node 3 - Sunstalker, Dragon King, Honeycomb Weaver (maybe Griffin - this node has the most options)
Node 4 - Red Witches (maybe manhunter, but probably not because of the 2 new nemesis' in GC)
Node 5 - Screaming God (Ivory Dragon isn't doing it for me, and honestly I don't even know if I want a node 5, but I really like the screaming god)


OK I think your getting confused about the nodes in that at the moment its been said they are working with two types of nodes, one for Quarries and one for Nemesis encounters, they don't occupy the same group. There's 5 Quarry Nodes and likely 6 Nemesis nodes (Butcher,Kingsman, Hand,Watcher, Gold Smoke Knight & Ivory Dragon/Parasite Queen/Goblin King) though I can only guess how interchangeable some of those nodes are.

Also I feel there were some mistakes in the descriptions because phoenix/dragon King/Sunstalker/Goblin King/DBK were said to be in node 3 and 4 on different occasions. My guess is Node 1 is year 0/1 Quarries node 2 is year 2-4 quarries node 3 is 5-7 quarries, node four is LY8-13 Quarries and node 5 is beyond that. Take with salt though.

Quote:

I haven't seen alot of buzz for the Honeycomb Weaver. The armor design seems kinda lame but that it fits 2 nodes seems like a lot of bang for the buck, plus it may add encounters with the nightmare bees (this is all in my head though, no idea if it's a real thing). I wouldn't even bother with Gorm, but a 2 year wait for the other node 1 monsters it almost seems like Gorm is a necessity.


I fully agree that the Nightmare Bees are likely an encounter simply because they have a Hybrid Armour linked to them, same with the Gate Guardian. I'm getting Gorm for the same reason though the more time that I consider the mini the more I like it, it works in the theme of the setting.

So as for your options it looks very much like my initial purchase list but for my budget and for making sure I get a good mix of current and new content I altered things up to go with Core+ chest+ Gorm+ Spidicules+ FK+ DBK+ HCW+ Oblivion Mosquito+, screaming god+, Abyssal Woods + Death Armour. Giving 8-10 (HCW & AW have dual) new Quarries, 6 new Nemesis and 6+ Encounters.
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Billy Crawford - Greybeard
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crimsonsun wrote:
phaelen2003 wrote:


Has anyone heard anything about the nightmare ram that I may have missed? Thoughts on this guy? I really want to see him land in Node 2.


During the campaign it was said that he is node 3, now of all the expansions this one seems to be the most complete in terms of content so I'd put more faith in that remaining as is more than I would the later announced expansions though its all subject to and very likely to change in multiple places.

Quote:

What I'm looking at is:
Node 1 - Honeycomb Weaver and Gorm (i really dig the frogdog armor design, so this might even be a go)
Node 2 - Oblivion Mosquito (hoping for Nightmare Ram to fit here)
Node 3 - Sunstalker, Dragon King, Honeycomb Weaver (maybe Griffin - this node has the most options)
Node 4 - Red Witches (maybe manhunter, but probably not because of the 2 new nemesis' in GC)
Node 5 - Screaming God (Ivory Dragon isn't doing it for me, and honestly I don't even know if I want a node 5, but I really like the screaming god)


OK I think your getting confused about the nodes in that at the moment its been said they are working with two types of nodes, one for Quarries and one for Nemesis encounters, they don't occupy the same group. There's 5 Quarry Nodes and likely 6 Nemesis nodes (Butcher,Kingsman, Hand,Watcher, Gold Smoke Knight & Ivory Dragon/Parasite Queen/Goblin King) though I can only guess how interchangeable some of those nodes are.

Also I feel there were some mistakes in the descriptions because phoenix/dragon King/Sunstalker/Goblin King/DBK were said to be in node 3 and 4 on different occasions. My guess is Node 1 is year 0/1 Quarries node 2 is year 2-4 quarries node 3 is 5-7 quarries, node four is LY8-13 Quarries and node 5 is beyond that. Take with salt though.

Quote:

I haven't seen alot of buzz for the Honeycomb Weaver. The armor design seems kinda lame but that it fits 2 nodes seems like a lot of bang for the buck, plus it may add encounters with the nightmare bees (this is all in my head though, no idea if it's a real thing). I wouldn't even bother with Gorm, but a 2 year wait for the other node 1 monsters it almost seems like Gorm is a necessity.


I fully agree that the Nightmare Bees are likely an encounter simply because they have a Hybrid Armour linked to them, same with the Gate Guardian. I'm getting Gorm for the same reason though the more time that I consider the mini the more I like it, it works in the theme of the setting.

So as for your options it looks very much like my initial purchase list but for my budget and for making sure I get a good mix of current and new content I altered things up to go with Core+ chest+ Gorm+ Spidicules+ FK+ DBK+ HCW+ Oblivion Mosquito+, screaming god+, Abyssal Woods + Death Armour. Giving 8-10 (HCW & AW have dual) new Quarries, 6 new Nemesis and 6+ Encounters.


Ok, so yeah, wow. I was way off on the node system it seems. Yeah, the lack of detailed out information caused all that confusion.

I really thought about going the route of Abyssal Woods, can you help me identify the 6 new nemesis' you are talking about in your setup and where they are coming from? I know the 2 new ones from the GC, and the spiral knight from abyssal woods, after that I'm lost lol.

Thanks!
 
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Crimsonsun God
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So your up to three, then the Parasite Queen (guess), Human Form Goblin, bloom Witch, Witch Coven. I didn't include the Parasite queen as its a guess however. Spiral Knight is also a Quarry in PotL and a Nemesis in PotB.

This is largely conjecture though, I've got only my instinct and reading though the lines to go on and even if I'm right with everything atm that doesn't mean I will be come release.
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Billy Crawford - Greybeard
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crimsonsun wrote:
So your up to three, then the Parasite Queen (guess), Human Form Goblin, bloom Witch, Witch Coven. I didn't include the Parasite queen as its a guess however. Spiral Knight is also a Quarry in PotL and a Nemesis in PotB.

This is largely conjecture though, I've got only my instinct and reading though the lines to go on and even if I'm right with everything atm that doesn't mean I will be come release.


Still though, I see how you put it all together and it makes sense. I didn't realize that spiral knight could be a quarry in a lantern campaign. It seems with your setup you get the most bang out of the buck. I just hope some of those nemesis' can be ripped from their campaign (witches from AW).

Anyways, thanks for your perspective :-)
 
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