Neil Edmonds
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On the off-chance you don't like a specific Game of Thrones sculpt for this game, Dark Sword Miniatures makes their own line.
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Richard Strachan
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Actually, from what I understand, Dark Sword are doing the miniatures for this in partnership with CMON.I don't have any myself, but i think their sculpts are pretty good (if quite pricey).
 
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Michael Shinall
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These are all new sculpts entirely, provided by CMON and approved by Dark Sword Miniatures.

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fwiw, DSM has also run their own metal miniatures KS, so they have project management experience (although CMON has much more and I don't know or think they'll be involved with project management). I have the DSM Stephanie Law miniatures. Very good quality.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/823962857/dark-sword-mi...
 
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Michael Shinall wrote:
These are all new sculpts entirely, provided by CMON and approved by Dark Sword Miniatures.



Could anyone tell from the video if these are going to be the standard cmon 32mm scale or if they are making them smaller for the trays? I'm hoping for the latter, but I see the current DSM Song of Ice and Fire listed as 28mm on a CMoN page.
 
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Michael Shinall
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Low Visibility wrote:
Michael Shinall wrote:
These are all new sculpts entirely, provided by CMON and approved by Dark Sword Miniatures.



Could anyone tell from the video if these are going to be the standard cmon 32mm scale or if they are making them smaller for the trays? I'm hoping for the latter, but I see the current DSM Song of Ice and Fire listed as 28mm on a CMoN page.


They are standard 28mm Heroic (ranging to 32, 38 and higher depending on unit), and to-scale with all current Dark Sword miniatures.

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Thanks for the info Michael.
 
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Michael Shinall wrote:
Low Visibility wrote:
Michael Shinall wrote:
These are all new sculpts entirely, provided by CMON and approved by Dark Sword Miniatures.



Could anyone tell from the video if these are going to be the standard cmon 32mm scale or if they are making them smaller for the trays? I'm hoping for the latter, but I see the current DSM Song of Ice and Fire listed as 28mm on a CMoN page.


They are standard 28mm Heroic (ranging to 32, 38 and higher depending on unit), and to-scale with all current Dark Sword miniatures.



Thank you for the response. So based on that, am I correct that it is the same scale as games like Zombicide Black Plague and Massive darkness?
 
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Marcin Mościcki
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Is it all but guaranteed that CMoN minis will follow the scale and style set by Darksword? I strongly suspect that they are figurative publishers here for licencing reason and that CMoN wouldnot ventire into such a project without a conviction of limited creative constraints (think X-Wing and AvP and what licencing entails).

So while it probably rules oyt chibi style or similar, going bigger/extra heroic might be still an option.

So, while I am quite sure CMoN will force me to get *their* Rob Stark/Tormund/Mance/Viper via some cards or other tricks, it isn't clear to me that I can actually fit Darksword minis into the same regiment and not have them stand off in a bad way.
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CMoN's bad habit of scale-creeping might still make the figures incompatible with Dark Sword Miniatures
Unfortunately, I am afraid you might be right. Few companies have scale-crept their miniature figures to as absurd sizes as CMoN, so unless there is a definitive confirmation on the campaign page that the minis are going to be in the same scale and size as DSM, one cannot rely on CMoN to adhere to any standards.
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Karsten Keese
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Compatibility with Dark Sword Miniatures' figures is a must
CMoN might be well-advised to keep their figures in the same size as the metal ones from DSM -- in case of doubt, rather 1 mm less than 1 mm more, because DSM are already too tall themselves. There are other companies that produce ASoIF figures, too, they just cannot call them GoT due to licensing issues.

As long as the figures are finely detailed, of excellent quality and compatible with other medieval/fantasy ranges, people are going to buy the game for the figures, despite the (so far) not-quite-convincing rules and gameplay. If CMoN scale-creep them beyond all hope for compatibility as usual, that group of potential customers will steer clear of the product -- there are too many better games and just as good figures out there, both fantasy and dark ages/medieval/early renaissance. Only collectors of all things George R.R. Martin are going to fall for the bait and switch tactics of expensive monthly releases.

The first few boxes will of course get picked up by the ignorant masses that always buy products that come with a picture of some popular franchise/IP on the cover, but grandma won't pay for little Tommy's monthly releases forever. Players of military simulations are the ones who spend big bucks on miniature games, and they are a different kind of crowd, not the usual CMoN customer: they scan rules for every dot and comma in the light of years of experience with dozens of rule sets. They know games, they know the market, they know their options and they are not going to invest the large amounts that miniature games require if the offering is not competitive with what's already out there in the crowded medieval/fantasy market. Much less will they throw away what cost them years of hunting down and painting plus a fortune in money to start over in a non-standard scale of a non-wargaming company whose future in this market sector is hidden in the fog of war.

Unfortunately, once again the promises concerning scale compatibility that were made before the crowdfunding campaign (see above) are not being kept. In the Kickstarter comments, Guilherme Goulart stated: «The size of the miniatures in A Song of Ice & Fire is 32 mm to the eye level. Infantry Movement Trays are roughly 5.5×4.5 inches or 14×12 cm; Cavalry Movement Trays are roughly 5.5"×5" (14×12.5 cm); Solo Movement Trays are roughly 2.75"×2.75" (7×7 cm)». A whopping 32 mm from the sole of the feet to the eyes means 34-35 mm head to feet, which makes the ASoIF miniatures incompatible with all standard 28 mm and even 28 mm heroic figures like DSM, FireForge, Gripping Beast, GW and so on.
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Not compatible = not an option
So I am not the only one who thinks that DSM are already too big for the advertised 28 mm?

Scale-crept giant figures or plastic blobs that are not on par with what DSM and others already offer in terms of details would be a red flag and the straw that breaks the camel's back. Zvezda are capable of producing 1/72 plastic minis with the same amount of details that the best metal manufacturers have on their 1/64, so there is no excuse for a company with pockets as deep as CMoN to come up with anything less.

Anything else than the very highest quality in sculpts and casting, anything taller than DSM => «A Series of Inexcusable Failures» will be ditched in favour of an upgraded pledge for «Blood & Plunder».

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Lawyers and Licenses vs Customers
One peculiar aspect of this whole «based on the books» vs «based on the series» nonsense, which end consumers could not care less about, is the peculiar decision not to (allow CMoN to) produce miniature figures that look like the familiar faces in «Game of Thrones».

Fantasy Flight Games produce board games, where game pieces are more abstract and likeness to the actors in GoT is not really necessary or feasible due to the small scale. CMoN are producing a tabletop game with miniature figures, where it would really be nice to have the characters impersonated by the actors we are all familiar with. Would it really have been so difficult for the law-twisters to come to a reasonable agreement in this regard, instead of haggling greedily over yet another bag of money in a way that took all kinds of aspects into account, with the exception of the customer? Would it really have hurt Asmodée (owner of FFG), the actors or HBO in any way if CMoN's miniature figures looked like the characters in the series?

The concentration in the board game industry begins to show the same ugly face as in other industries where fewer and fewer oligopolist behemoths, managed by pea counters in accounting and lawyers, are too far away from the enthusiasm and passion that is the very basis of the entertainment and fan article industry.
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Corporations against creativity
KarstenKeese wrote:
Corporations managed by pea counters and lawyers are too far away from the enthusiasm and passion that is the very basis of the entertainment and fan article industry.

That's what happened in the movie, music, TV and video game industry and why we always get the same kind of rehash of the same kind of stuff once the suits-&-ties figured out which type of product appeals to the largest sub-sample of the demographic. Risk-averse and often with no comprehension of what made their industry/company grow in the first place, they will cater to those thirty-something percent of consumers each and every time, shunning any risk to try something new -- until somebody else does it successfully. When that happens, they all jump on the gravy train and you cannot get anything that's not the latest hype any more.

It's just astonishing to hear these words from someone whom I thought to be a white-collar criminal himself ... ? laugh
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Karsten Keese
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Reasonable License Management
I am an executive manager and business consultant, not a technocrat, always doing a fundamental instead of merely a technical analysis. Those are two terms in financial investment, and most people in that industry only do the latter, which is the reason for many a financial crisis, apart from the usual troika of
Stupidity, vanity, greed
these three
ruin economy, country and
you and me.

That's what ends in «A Story of Imbeciles and Fools», like the 2008 financial crisis.

Speaking of a Game of Fools: since the ASoIF:TMG rules and mechanics leave a lot to be desired, the only reason for blowing precious golden ducats on the product are the miniatures, in order to play them with an alternative, decent set of rules. The products that consumers are hoping to find when they open their pledge fulfilment boxes would be similar to these promotional figures that were sold at a convention:
Promotional figures sold during the San Diego Comic-Con (SDCC) in July 2017

Keep in mind, though, that the production figures are not going to be cast in metallic plastic like those promo minis. End consumers will not obtain resin figures either, which are used in the videos, for product pictures in store catalogues or as examples of painted characters:
CMoN's display figures from «Blood Rage», «Zombicide: Black Plague» and «ASoIF:TMG» in Resin

CMoN's «Blood Rage» production figures in PVC

According to the game's author Michael Shinall, CMoN's Wrath of Kings product line would be a better approximation of what players are going to receive, because ABS hard plastic is only used for 'bendy' parts like spears and swords; the rest is still PVC that cannot hold details as crisp and sharp as GW, Zvezda or other quality-oriented companies' casting materials and techniques:
Wrath of Kings «Nazier Arkazan» production figure in plastic for consumers

Wrath of Kings «Goritsi Zeti» in painted resin, for marketing and product presentation
Wrath of Kings «Goritsi Zeti» in plastic, the material that end consumers receive


To have everything in one place, here are the technical specifications: The miniature figures are 32 mm to eye level. Each Infantry unit has 3 poses + 1 bannerman, each Cavalry has 4 unique poses. Infantry bases are 30 mm, Cavalry bases 50 mm. Infantry Movement Trays are 14×12 cm, Cavalry Moment Trays 14×12.5 cm) and Solo Movement Trays 7×7 cm. Rough dimensions for the first terrain pieces in the Woodland Terrain Set are: Trees Set 24×13 cm, 12 cm tall; Hedge 15×6.5 cm, 2.2 cm tall. The box is 45×28×12 cm. The starter box will cost $150 in retail stores, characters and smaller units will be anything from $15-25 and a unit box of 12 minis and a tray will retail for $35 USD.

CMoN's figures are cast in 32 mm to eye level for the average human, i.e. 34 mm - 35 mm head to toe, so that they appear as detailed as the products made by other manufacturers. This scale-creeping beyond the usual standard scales for miniatures used in mass battles (1:72 = 25 mm, 1:64 = 28 mm, seldomly 1:56 = 32 mm) means that ASoIF:TMG figures will be incompatible with most other ranges, and a lot of the existing scenery, buildings, game mats, tables, etc., might look a little too small for them. At 30 mm diamter, the bases are wider than the usual 20 mm - 25 mm, too, and since they come cast together with the miniatures in one piece, it is impossible to re-base them for usage in other games.

It is a pity that such a popular and beloved alternative universe was not deemed worthy of the highest possible production values, especially when taking into consideration that DSM are the best manufacturer in the market, but differences between the 3D renders, resin samples and production castings aside: it is very doubtful that Asmodée/FFG would sell one copy less of their GRRM themed games or that one spectator less would watch HBO's «A Game of Thrones» if the miniatures in CMoN's «A Song of Ice and Fire - Tabletop Miniature Game» looked like those in the TV series. This leads to the conclusion that either one or both sides, far from being reasonable and good sports, exhibited the three aforementioned characteristics during the license negotiations.

What a pity again. Instead of «A Struggle of inflexible Franchisers», the companies could have worked together. For instance, FFG could have lent a hand in designing some decent rules and CMoN might create the figures for a Battles of Westeros de Luxe Edition, or the two companies create a single game together, taking advantage of their respective strengths. This is just a weird idea off the top of my hat as a theoretical example, of course, but in the current situation, nobody wins and everybody loses -- most of all the fans of George R.R. Martin's novels/series as well as those of challenging and elegant strategy games.
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OT: who does ASoIaF character proxy minis?
 
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Karsten Keese
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The only other companies that are allowed to advertise their figures with an official reference to «A Song of Ice and Fire» or «A Game of Thrones» are Dark Sword Miniatures in 32 mm and Magister Militium in 54 mm. Every other manufacturer better be outside the reach of US attorneys or wherever they can bully governments to do their bidding (AU, CA, EU, NZ ...) and impose US interpretation of copyright laws. Other than Switzerland, this leaves China and Russia as the only places where the technology and a culture of toy production is sufficiently established to serve a global market.

Of course there are hundreds of manufacturers that produce miniature figures for the dark and middle ages, war of the roses or fantasy, but they will have to use generic names for their troop types. It is no problem to recruit hallebardiers, sword fighters, pikemen, men at arms or the like; the tedious part is rather the combing through all those web shops to select the most suitable sculpts. The iconography (coat of arms, heraldry) should not be too difficult to find either, at least not for Lannisters or Starks, because lions and wolves are ubiquitous symbols in heraldry, and the same goes for boars, stags and so on. Buying decals for generic bucklers and shields or your tin soldiers' uniforms will keep you covered. Obviously, the more off the beaten path and fantastic the coat of arms or weapons that a particular house uses, the more difficult it will become to find the respective accessories, bitz, banners and flags. In this case, downloading the imagery and creating your own decals might be the best approach for heraldry and 3D printing for sceptres or weapons.

Depending on how close to the official illustrations or TV series you want them, things will get difficult when you are looking for particular characters with narrowly defined looks, or for races, monsters and other species that are not part of the common fantasy lore. Dwarves, Elves and Orcs would be easy, ice spiders in a scale that exactly fits the riders you have chosen are a different story. It goes without saying that there are tons of monsters and weird creatures available as well, but for licensing reasons, probably not exactly what one is looking for. The more unique to Westeros and the more exotic the creature or race you want to put on the gaming table, the longer your search for suitable unofficial proxy miniatures will be.

There are some nice big pictures of the ASoIF miniatures on The Miniatures Page; they are CMoN's 3D renders, of course, not the PVC blobs consumers will receive, but they might make comparing alternative products easier. The illustrations and artwork in other ASoIF/GoT products help when it comes to other houses when adhering to Westeros arms and weapons standards. If you happen to find any suitable miniature figure series, please do not hesitate to list them here and to link to them from the alternative systems to play GoT thread.

In the meantime, here are a few options to get you started:
Dark Sword Miniatures.
Game of Thrones HOTT in 28 and in 10 mm.
Elladan Figures & Terrain.
Frostgrave by Osprey and North Star Military Figures.
Lead Adventure => Wargames Gazette
Lucid Eye Publications ¬> Savage Core Cro Magnon.
The Miniatures Page (search for «Song of Ice and Fire», «Game of Thrones», «ASoiF», «GoT», «GRRM» and similar variations).
Warlord Games wild dogs, Celtic war hounds or Britons Mastiff packmaster.
Warmaster ASoIF Army Lists.

Heraldry
The Citadel of Westeros
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