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Subject: Hitler Turns East: some questions here and there. rss

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Neftali Silva
Argentina
Mendoza
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Hi there,



I have got everything ready for my first HTE game tomorrow and as usual in the day before I'm working on the last things I don't get entirely, hope you can help me!

I pretty like ATO rule books, they mastered the thing, their rule books organizatio are close to perfection as I see it. But in this case I miss some concept explanations which may be crucial for those like me who aren't real english speakers. For exemple what's Mobile Assault? the text explains how to and in which conditions Mobile Assault may be done, but I would like a plain definition, same thing for "picking up" units while Mobile Assaulting.

Then I looked for responses in the ConsimWorld forum, and I did find some but that's a mess of a forum! Specially with all four games in the same thread.

However, I have broken my many doubts into the following list:


13.3.1 Garrisons may be created during the German player’s movement
in any friendly-controlled town, city, fort, or oil hex that is either
occupied by or adjacent to its army.


How are actually Garrison created? They just jump into existance? Can I build so many Garrison as friendly-controlled towns or cities adjacent to or occupied by 4 steps Armis when they (armies) move?

13.3.4 Garrisons may be removed from the board, for later placement
elsewhere, during any Reinforcement Phase if they currently have a Line
of Communication to their parent Army.


Do they come back into play after being voluntarily (?) removed without need of expenditure of Replacement Steps or anything?


13.3.5 Garrisons do not count for stacking or add to the defense strength of any other German units in their hex.


Let's suppose a hex occupied by a garrison plus a german combat unit is attacked, the garrison's combat factor is added to the total combat factor defense against the russian attackers, right? The rules actually pretends to state that the garrison is not a bonus you can apply to another unit, I'm a right?



13.5.1 The German 4th Army is always under von Kluge’s command
(his name is printed on the 4th Army’s counter) and may always be
given its own set of Orders regardless of the current Orders of the Army
Group it is in.


This "always" means "whenever the unit is activated" in the same way you do with German Leaders (Guderian and Kleist) but without the roll, right?


5.2.1 Soviet Reinforcement/Replacement
Place Soviet Combat Reinforcements in any controlled Town or City hex in Russia, within a 4 hexes of a friendly unit or Automatic Victory City that has a LOC to the east edge.



Does need the Automatic Victory City to be russian controlled?

"Russia" here means "Soviet Union", right?


What if germans got no VP city at all, but the minimum replacement value for next turn is 2?

The russians get these 2 replacement since "minimum" here means "guaranteed", right?

7.2.2 Withdraw
[...]they [activated units] may not Attack or enter an enemy ZOC, except that they may move directly from one ZOC hex into another [another ZOC or another HEX?], but must halten if moving in the allowed directions.


Must the unit start its movement in an enemy ZOC to be able to move to another ZOC/HEX?

"allowed directions" means NOT ending up stacked in a Town, City, Fort ot Rough hex? Which is the second possibility for Withdraw movement diferent to move in the Compass Allowed Direction.



12.4 Mobile Assault


What actually is a Mobile Assault? The possibility to atack while moving?

In Snow Turns, does act a Mobile Defense order as a passive order in the sense its effects apply in the russian active phase? (when german units may become "defender"). Can one say that Mobile Defense is an Assault order plus this defensive bonus after activated?


Must the unit Mobile Assaulting pay +1 over the terrain cost for every hex it entered on its activation?
Or this +1 applies just to the hexes adjacent to the units being Mobile Assaulted?



7.2.3 Assault
[...] There are not movement restrictions [...]


What restrictions? Can I move through impassable hexes? Should I ignore terrain costs?


12.4.3 A Panzer Corps may MA only once per turn. They may also
perform one regular combat a turn.


Does this means, I may MA a enemy hex, end the movement and then perform the regular attack?

12.4.6 There is no normal combat “Advance after Combat” with MAs.

Does this applies to the regular attack after MA?(in the case there is a regular attack after MA of course).

12.4.9 Additional Panzer units can be “picked up” while the stack,
which will MA, is moving, but the units picked up will have expended
the same number of movement points as the stack picking them up at
that point.


What is actually is Picking Up a unit? Must the picked up unit to be adjacent to the "picking up" unit or the picking up unit needs to move through the picked up unit's hex? That is, the moving MA unit needs to occupy the hex where the unit to be picked up is staked?
There are restrictions about elegible units to be picked up? Could it be in an adjacent army group/front? Could it have been already activated by a previous order?


7.3 Soviet Counterattack
7.3.5 Once this movement is complete, add up the total number of
Soviet Combat Factors, with an LOC to an Off Map Zone hex, adjacent
to German Combat Factors on the chosen Front and treat it as a single
Soviet Attack (see below), ignoring Terrain, Supply, and Weather, and
roll for the Combat Result on the Counterattack Table (see PAC).


I don't see how rule 7.3.5 specify how the calcule is made to the get total German Combat Factors. I assume you add up all Combat Factors of german units adjacent to russian attacking ones in that Front. Am I right?


13.7 Soviet Black Sea Capabilities
b) Two such invasions are allowed per game.


Does this means the Russian player have just two attempts regardless of success? Or does this limitations cover just effectively done (successful) invasions?

here comes the stupid questions:

About ZOC:

Is a russian unit OOS if occuping a hex in a german ZOC? Zoc blocks lines of supply but units negates Zoc for supply purposes so I don't know if a unit may negate enemy Zocs in self-benefit.


10.1.2 Units are Out of Supply (OOS) when beyond a line of 4 hexes with the same restrictions as an LOC from a friendly-controlled Town or City that in turn can trace an LOC back to a friendly board edge.

Let's put it this way: How many intervening hexes maxim between the unit and the city/town to be in supply? I don't know if the city and the unit's hexes them-selves counts.


10.1.6 Surrounded Units that are surrounded (unable to trace a supply line) determine their
modified CF and movement value by determining the length of a direct(shortest route passing through any enemy units or their ZOCs) supply line to the closest valid City/Town that has an LOC. Subtract 1 CF or MP for each hex distant (unit’s hex excluded).


What exactely means to be surrounded? sorrounded by Zoc, by impassable hex?

9.2.1 An LOC is a path of passable hexes of any length within the boundary plus one hex beyond of an Army Group or Front, free of enemy units or un-negated enemy ZOC or prohibited hexes/hexsides to the west map edge (for the Axis) or the Soviet East Zone hexes (for the Soviets)

What exactely means the part "one hex beyond[/b]" in this sentence? Does it means that if a Army Group or Boundary has a width of 5 hexes at some point in the map, the LOC applies into 7 (one hex beyond per side)?

[i]10.2.2 Opposing units that are mutually out of supply because of each other's positions both lose a step at the same time.

10.2.4 Units that are OSS during this check do not exert a ZOC for this check.[/i]


This is blowing my mind. If OSS units exert no ZOC for attrition pourpuses how's possible two units cut each other off from supply simultaneously?

3.1 Setup

Could you confirm the German player start the game with 3 Marker Orders: 1 Blitz in the Mug, 1 Hold/Atc in the mug and 1 Blitz in one Army Group Order Box? Not entirely sure the starting Blitz Marker on the Army Group Order Box stated on the rules is part of the 2 Blitz Orders previously put in the mug or it is actually a 3rd marker.

Could the initiative player select any Order Marker in the mug? i.e. may the german player select a Counterattack Order, or the Zhukov marker? The rulebook says soviet could do so (pick the Zhukov marker) but I don't know if the german is allowed to do so.


12.3.5 Clarification regarding retreats when surrounded in the Addenda states: "Units eliminated during combat also check".


Does this means:

"Units eliminated ( and completely surrounded and unable to retreat) during combar also check (for permanent removal)" ?



Finally I see no reference to this unit:



Well that's it hehe. I prefered to put it all together and not stay asking stuff every day.

Thanks in advance!

Nef
 
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Lem Tohver
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Hi Nef,

I have been made aware of these questions and I will get you the answers by tomorrow evening (EST).

But, with reference to your pictured Para unit. This is a variant unit (note the "V" on the unit). The rules for this are with the expansion rules which combined the play of John Prados' game in this 4 Roads to Moscow package and this game.

Lembit
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Lem Tohver
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> How are actually Garrison created?

They are placed in the town/city/fort/oil hex in which the Army they belong to are located. There is only one garrison per army.

> They just jump into existence?

Placed during the Reinforcement Phase of the Army’s activation of a turn.

> Can I build so many Garrison as friendly-controlled towns or cities adjacent to or occupied by 4 steps Armies when they (armies) move?

Only one garrison per Army.

> Do they come back into play after being voluntarily (?) removed without need of expenditure of Replacement Steps or anything?

Once the expenditure of a step has been done, yes, you just place them according the rule’s guidelines.

> What actually is a Mobile Assault? The possibility to attack while moving?

It is the special ability of German Panzer Korps to attack during their movement.

> Does this means, I may MA a enemy hex, end the movement and then perform the regular attack?

Yes.

> Does this applies to the regular attack after MA?(in the case there is a regular attack after MA of course).


No, only to the MA attack.

> What actually is Picking Up a unit? Must the picked up unit to be adjacent to the "picking up" unit or the picking up unit needs to move through the picked up unit's hex? That is, the moving MA unit needs to occupy the hex where the unit to be picked up is staked?

You can pick up a unit when you move into its hex. I then moves with the original moving unit.

> Does this means the Russian player have just two attempts regardsless of success? Or does this limitations cover just effectively done (successful) invasions?

This means that you can attempt (successful or not) 2 Black Sea Invasions during a particular game if you meet any required conditions prior to starting each invasion individually..

> Is a Russian unit OOS if occupying a hex in a German ZOC? Zoc blocks lines of supply but units negates Zoc for supply purposes so I don't know if a unit may negate enemy Zocs in self-benefit.

Unit is not out of supply by just that. Enemy ZOC in its hex is negated for itself by itself.

> Let's put it this way: How many hexes maxim between the unit and the city/town to be in supply?

The 4 hexes are between the city/town and the unit.

> I don't know if the city and the unit's hexes them-selves counts.


No. They are between.

> What exactly means to be surrounded? surrounded by Zoc, by impassable hex?

Defined by what it states in the brackets of the rule: “unable to trace a supply line”

> What exactely means the part "one hex beyond" in this sentence? Does it means that if a Army Group or Boundary has a width of 5 hexes at some point in the map, the LOC applies into 7 (one hex beyond per side)?


What this means is that the LOC can pass through hexes that are the hexes just past the boundary line of the Army group (in the adjacent Army Group’s Area.

 
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Neftali Silva
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Thanks for your time Lembit, I know it takes more time to you to reply than it takes to me to ask.

I have recently added lots of new questions to the original post after our first game which was really exiting however! Hope you can help when you have a moment for this. I will use another color for the last added questions so they get easy to identify.



I don't how why this rulebook is being so difficult for me to get. It's being very frustrating, when I feel like that after trying hard I just give up and get over but this is a Ted Taicer's, I own him! Hehe.

Nef
 
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Lem Tohver
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Hi Nef,

I would just like to let you know, that it is easier for me to respond to a new post (in the same discussion thread) with the new questions, than to go back to an edited post in which the new questions have been added. Please keep this in mind during future postings, I would appreciate it.

I will have answers either later today or tomorrow morning.

Lembit
 
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Lem Tohver
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> Let's suppose a hex occupied by a garrison plus a german combat unit is attacked, the garrison's combat factor is added to the total combat factor defense against the russian attackers, right?

No.

> The rules actually pretends to state that the garrison is not a bonus you can apply to another unit, I'm a right?’

Correct. It adds nothing to the defense. So don’t stack with a garrison. It fights alone.

> This "always" means "whenever the unit is activated" in the same way you do with German Leaders (Guderian and Kleist) but without the roll, right?

You only get orders when activated, so that is a given adjunct of the rules. The special case is that the 4th Army can have a different order that the command group which does not need to be rolled for (you are correct there).

> Does need the Automatic Victory City to be russian controlled?

No. It just must have a LOC to the East Edge. You place the Soviet unit in a controlled town or city hex (which could be a controlled Auto Victory City.

> "Russia" here means "Soviet Union", right?

Yes.

> What if germans got no VP city at all, but the minimum replacement value for next turn is 2?

German’s are guided by rule 5.1.1 (no city requirements)

> The russians get these 2 replacement since "minimum" here means "guaranteed", right?

Only guaranteed if the Soviet has eliminated units to able to use for the replacement points.

> Must the unit start its movement in an enemy ZOC to be able to move to another ZOC/HEX?

Yes it must. The wording in this rule (which may not translate exactly) indicates that if a unit starts in a ZOC and it can only move to another ZOC hex in the direction of withdrawal, normally this move is not permitted, but with this order in effect, the unit can perform this move.

> "allowed directions" means NOT ending up stacked in a Town, City, Fort ot Rough hex? Which is the second possibility for Withdraw movement diferent to move in the Compass Allowed Direction.

The rule means as stated. If you can legally move in the black arrow direction and enter a Town/City/Fort or Rough hex, you do not have to move in the direction of the white arrows.

> In Snow Turns, does act a Mobile Defense order as a passive order in the sense its effects apply in the russian active phase? (when german units may become "defender"). Can one say that Mobile Defense is an Assault order plus this defensive bonus after activated?

Mobile Defense (instead of Blitz) is the orders for the Germans when the weather is snow for the turn. They have the abilities as noted in the last three sentences of the rule (7.2.4). Note that it costs 4 command points.

> 7.2.3 What restrictions? Can I move through impassable hexes? Should I ignore terrain costs?

Other commands have movement restrictions (directions allowed and such noted in the order rule). This means that regular movement rules apply, but there no order-related restrictions.

> I don't see how rule 7.3.5 specify how the calculation is made to the get total German Combat Factors. I assume you add up all Combat Factors of german units adjacent to russian attacking ones in that Front. Am I right?

Yes, that is the implication as the rule is written. You tally up all Soviet combat factors versus total of all German combat factors of their units being attacked. I am adding a clarification to the addenda file for this.

> 13.7 Soviet Black Sea Capabilities Does this means the Russian player have just two attempts regardless of success? Or does this limitations cover just effectively done (successful) invasions?

Maximum of 2 attempts (regardless of success or failure) per game.

> 10.2.2 Opposing units that are mutually out of supply because of each other's positions both lose a step at the same time.
10.2.4 Units that are OSS during this check do not exert a ZOC for this check.
> This is blowing my mind. If OSS units exert no ZOC for attrition pourpuses how's possible two units cut each other off from supply simultaneously?


They are not cutting each other off except due to the hex they occupy. It is the situation around them by other units causing each to be cut off. I am going to try to attach a picture to this response which shows the circumstance. In the picture, the German 3rd Panzer Corps is out of supply and the Russian 21st Army is out of supply and they are next to each other.
 
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