Jeff M
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As the title says.
 
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He already has but its a dumbed down version called "Blood Rage" you may have heard of it. The current running Kickstarter "Rising Sun" is another version he is making this one is asymmetric like Chaos in the Old World but not by much. You may wan't to look into Cry Havoc if you want that Chaos in the Old World Feel with a different Theme.


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Joseph Courtight
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Mrdabba wrote:
He already has but its a dumbed down version called "Blood Rage" you may have heard of it. The current running Kickstarter "Rising Sun" is another version he is making this one is asymmetric like Chaos in the Old World but not by much. You may wan't to look into Cry Havoc if you want that Chaos in the Old World Feel with a different Theme.


Isn't cry havoc more similar to Dune/Rex then Chaos.
As for Rising Sun, I personally was hoping for something more similar to Kemet+politics, but the game looks to be area control similar to Chaos, but not nearly as tightly designed. While I have not played it yet Ninjas seem a bit OP for example.

Ironic that Chaos might be the less chaotic of the two.

As for the rumors, I would not make anything of them unless they are attached to a reliable source. GW does not give its licences easily and with the revoking from FFG I do not think they will give it to another company anytime soon. Ironically, they started being very liberal with the video game licences.
 
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Mrdabba wrote:
He already has but its a dumbed down version called "Blood Rage" you may have heard of it. The current running Kickstarter "Rising Sun" is another version he is making this one is asymmetric like Chaos in the Old World but not by much. You may wan't to look into Cry Havoc if you want that Chaos in the Old World Feel with a different Theme.




Actually Blood Rage is a re-implementation of Midgard. And Chaos is a greatly improved version of Midgard... it's swampy.

But yes, Chaos is still the superior game haha.
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Mrdabba wrote:
He already has but its a dumbed down version called "Blood Rage" you may have heard of it. The current running Kickstarter "Rising Sun" is another version he is making this one is asymmetric like Chaos in the Old World but not by much. You may wan't to look into Cry Havoc if you want that Chaos in the Old World Feel with a different Theme.




Thanks.
I have Blood Rage and Cry Havoc...pledged Rising Sun.
Though each of these games has / will have variable player powers, none is a true reimplementation of Chaos's game mechanics.
I'm hoping that one day somebody will pull a Dune/Rex re-do of Chaos to bypass the current situation with Games Workshop.
 
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Reilly Coughlin
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Lowden025 wrote:
Mrdabba wrote:
He already has but its a dumbed down version called "Blood Rage" you may have heard of it. The current running Kickstarter "Rising Sun" is another version he is making this one is asymmetric like Chaos in the Old World but not by much. You may wan't to look into Cry Havoc if you want that Chaos in the Old World Feel with a different Theme.




Thanks.
I have Blood Rage and Cry Havoc...pledged Rising Sun.
Though each of these games has / will have variable player powers, none is a true reimplementation of Chaos's game mechanics.
I'm hoping that one day somebody will pull a Dune/Rex re-do of Chaos to bypass the current situation with Games Workshop.


Haha that makes me wish for a Dune themed CiTOW mechanics game.
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Actually the theme was amazing.I'd like a 2nd edition though,with better upgrades and old world cards.
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Lowden025 wrote:
Mrdabba wrote:
He already has but its a dumbed down version called "Blood Rage" you may have heard of it. The current running Kickstarter "Rising Sun" is another version he is making this one is asymmetric like Chaos in the Old World but not by much. You may wan't to look into Cry Havoc if you want that Chaos in the Old World Feel with a different Theme.




Thanks.
I have Blood Rage and Cry Havoc...pledged Rising Sun.
Though each of these games has / will have variable player powers, none is a true reimplementation of Chaos's game mechanics.
I'm hoping that one day somebody will pull a Dune/Rex re-do of Chaos to bypass the current situation with Games Workshop.


I hope they don't Rex CitOW, Rex was a terrible re-implementation of Dune.

They would have to change the CitOW universe to the one with the Sol and the Jolnar or whatever, then fiddle with the rules as well, making turn 1 victories common.
 
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Brad Miller
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Why would changing the theme require fiddling, and/or make turn 1 victories more common?

 
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Windopaene wrote:
Why would changing the theme require fiddling, and/or make turn 1 victories more common?



EXACTLY!!!!
 
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glookose wrote:
Windopaene wrote:
Why would changing the theme require fiddling, and/or make turn 1 victories more common?



EXACTLY!!!!


Figured out that you were referring to the transition from Dune->Rex, re, 1st turn wins. Wasn't aware of the changes, being a Dune owner.

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Windopaene wrote:
Wasn't aware of the changes, being a Dune owner.


And this is how you twist the knife, kids.
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Windopaene wrote:
glookose wrote:
Windopaene wrote:
Why would changing the theme require fiddling, and/or make turn 1 victories more common?



EXACTLY!!!!


Figured out that you were referring to the transition from Dune->Rex, re, 1st turn wins. Wasn't aware of the changes, being a Dune owner.




Yeah they changed a lot of stuff.

They changed the order of Ship then Move to Move then Ship.
They increased the amount of money - everybody gets CHOAM charity every round whether they are broke or not if I remember.
They added +1 to all movement numbers so Ornithopters let you move 4 instead of 3 and so forth.
The game was limited to 8 turns instead of 15 (or the 10 that I play with using the WBC rules).

There were a bunch of other changes ... I wrote up a big thing about it years ago, but i've forgotten most of it by now.
We played 3 times and 2 of those were turn 1 victories.
After that I just gave up trying and sold Rex off.

This was all on top of FFG not getting the Dune license and having to change the theme over to their Twilight Imperium universe. They changed the board from something elegant into a busy eyesore and changed the Sandstorm into a plastic ships token that hopped around the board in a crazy way "bombarding" cities.

The net result of the awful graphic design plus the "tweaking" of all those core rules made a beautiful well balanced gem of a game into a very mediochre game.

I was so excited for a re-print, but this failed in a big way.

If it had just been the rules tweaking, I could have used the new components and the old rules, but the combination of the complete re-theme AND the new rules just didn't leave much that I could use.

Sometimes you can make things better when you do a re-print, but there are times when you should just leave something alone and just do newer upgraded components without changing the rules and/or theme.
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Andrés Santiago Pérez-Bergquist
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glookose wrote:
They changed the board from something elegant into a busy eyesore


Regardless of how one feels about the other changes, there is no credible way to claim the original Dune board is "elegant". Some of the PnP ones are very pretty, but the original one is washed out and low-contrast, with some rather hard to see borders, and the interaction between radial storm sectors and movement areas is a tangled rules mess. The Rex board is all ugly yellow and the path of the bombardment is hard to follow, but at least you can tell where everyone is unambiguously and how everything is connected.
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Santiago wrote:
glookose wrote:
They changed the board from something elegant into a busy eyesore


Regardless of how one feels about the other changes, there is no credible way to claim the original Dune board is "elegant". Some of the PnP ones are very pretty, but the original one is washed out and low-contrast, with some rather hard to see borders, and the interaction between radial storm sectors and movement areas is a tangled rules mess. The Rex board is all ugly yellow and the path of the bombardment is hard to follow, but at least you can tell where everyone is unambiguously and how everything is connected.


To me, the AH Dune board totally works and represents the surface of the planet and the storm zones are all symmetrical and make sense. The colors are a bit garish, but I consider the design highly functional and then the PrintNPlay version takes it and makes it even better, evening out the colors and making the design even more elegant.

The Arkham Horror style board of Rex is just a busy hot mess. It hurts my head to try and follow all those lines and try to figure out the wacky Fleet movement. The Sandstorm was much easier to understand and visually and mentally accept and work with.

The Rex chart/diagram thing might work mathematically, but its aesthetically and functionally troubling.

You can tie a laser gun and a water-breathing tank to the head of a shark and let him flop around in your basement, and maybe he might manage to kill a mouse at some point, but why not just get a cat?

 

 

 

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I'm still waiting for an expansion/reprint of Chaos that scales down to 2 players soblue.
 
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I know they're expensive, but Cthulhu Wars or the upcoming Gods War might be what you're looking for.
 
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glookose wrote:
Sometimes you can make things better when you do a re-print, but there are times when you should just leave something alone and just do newer upgraded components without changing the rules and/or theme.


Well, the fact that there are so many different rulesets and optional rules for Dune shows that it needed some sort of rules formalization or update IMO. Though that's not to say that the choices Rex made were necessarily for the better.

But for what it's worth, I don't think Turn 1 wins are a huge part of the game (the threat is there, but barring some considerable luck they are quite preventable)
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SirHandsome wrote:
glookose wrote:
Sometimes you can make things better when you do a re-print, but there are times when you should just leave something alone and just do newer upgraded components without changing the rules and/or theme.


Well, the fact that there are so many different rulesets and optional rules for Dune shows that it needed some sort of rules formalization or update IMO. Though that's not to say that the choices Rex made were necessarily for the better.

But for what it's worth, I don't think Turn 1 wins are a huge part of the game (the threat is there, but barring some considerable luck they are quite preventable)


If everyone is aware that the movement values are increased and strongholds that used to be out of reach from ornithopter movement are now reachable right away and that there are lots of cards added that grant additional movement instead of just the single Hajr from the old game ...
AND everyone stays home more and turtles to prevent a turn 1 win by whoever goes late in the round ....
then you can avoid turn 1 wins for the most part I would imagine, barring lucky traitor card draws.

But - the point is - FFG didn't like the pace of Dune, so they put it on crack. They wanted a quicker game, a shorter game, a more intense game.
The map is smaller now (increased movement rates plus added movement cards) and the game is shorter (decreased turn limit) and there is more money to ship/recover troops/bid on cards (increased money).

Its like giving 2 trained fencers each a chainsaw and putting them in a phone booth. Yes their bout will be over quicker and there will no doubt be more blood, but its not really a fencing match anymore.

If you are a Dune board game fan, you are most likely not going to enjoy seeing the game changed in so many ways to punch up the action.
You are probably also not going to like the confusion that the eyesore of a map adds to troop movement, strongholds, and bombardment movement patterns.

If you are a Dune book/movie/IP fan you are definitely not going to enjoy seeing everything about Dune turned into Twilight Imperium stuff. I was always trying to remember if Jolnar equalled Harkonen and Letnev equalled Fremen and Sol equaled the Emperor and so forth.
I personally LOVE the DUNE IP and don't give a flying f@ck about the TI uiniverse.

The old game has finely tuned mechanisms, that when you play the game multiple times, unfold before you and make an exquisite experience unlike any other.

Dune is the first game I list when I talk about theme being integrated into a board game successfully. People talk about pasted on themes on lots of euro games. With Dune you can move a storm around the surface of a planet and try to rush out and grab spice and dodge the storm. Sandworms surface and eat your troops and the spice. You hold guns and knives hidden behind your combat screen and reveal them to kill your opponents leaders when you battle. You can stand on a patch of stone on the map and avoid the Sandworms.
You can't just set Dune in a post office or restaurant and have mathematical auctions and trades and so forth make sense.
The theme is married to the game here.

If they could have acquired the IP and remade the game in an amazing way, mostly true to the original, like they did with Cosmic Encounter, it would have been much better.
Even when they "jazzed up" Wiz-War, and nearly ruined it, they left the old rules in the back of the rulebook so that you could play it the old way if you wanted to.
They printed the old floor boards on the back of the new speedier floor boards.
Dune desperately needed a new version to upgrade the components and make the game accessible to a new generation of players.

In my opinion, they should have just cancelled the project when they found out the Herbert estate wouldn't sell them the IP.

Does anyone think we are going to be playing or talking about Rex 35 years after it was created like people do with Dune and Cosmic Encounter?
Not likely.

I don't know that there are that many different rule sets. The two main rule sets are the original AH rules for complete purists, and the WBC rules which were created to really fine tune and tweak the game for dedicated fans.
The only real problem I see with the original Dune is that 1 out of every 10 games might go on for too many rounds.
The WBC ruleset limits Dune to 10 turns.
You basically use the advanced powers, have a double spice blow, power up your troops using spice, and limit the game to 10 turns.

Whether you stick to the AH rules or use the WBC rules - the original Dune is an amazing experience once you familiarize yourself with the game. Its the board game equivalent of driving a Ferrari.

Rex is better than poking yourself in the eye with a stick, but not by much if you are already a Dune fan.
If you have never played Dune and are playing Rex for the first time, don't forget to warn everybody at your table to turtle on round 1 or your set-up/rules explanation will take 30 minutes and your game might only last for 10. And that part is no exaggeration but comes from personal experience.
I couldn't pay my game group to play Rex again after that happened 2 out of 3 times.
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Mrdabba wrote:
He already has but its a dumbed down version called "Blood Rage" you may have heard of it.


This just made my day.
 
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