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Subject: How to sell more of your game... rss

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Justin Rizzo
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The play-though video on the KS page is atrocious. The audio is intolerable. I don't mean that to be rude, it's just intolerable. However, the burning issue is I have no idea what's going on. I'm just watching people play the game...that's not selling it for me. They might as well be speaking Japanese, as their "commentary" isn't doing anything helpful.

Some of us didn't play Blood Rage. Blood Rage didn't look interesting to me. The mechanics in this one *sound* more interesting, but for $100+ I want to know they are going to be to my taste. For example, how are alliances going to work with only 3P? Is someone going to be left out every time? Won't that suck?

I'd love to back this game. So, please, give a prototype to Wil Wheaton so you can take my money already. I need a proper play-through. Please. Do it. You must do it. Let us have a production quality playthrough.

All sarcasm aside. Honestly, put something together so noobs like me can actually understand the gameplay and decide to back it.
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Mark Iradian
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JustinRRizzo wrote:

I'd love to back this game. So, please, give a prototype to Wil Wheaton so you can take my money already. I need a proper play-through. Please. Do it. You must do it. Let us have a production quality playthrough.


Wil Wheaton and "proper playthrough" should not be in the same paragraph.
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Arbitrary Ranger
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Actually somebody got their hands on a prototype copy and have posted it on youtube - I think it has better audio quality, albeit no real rules explanation. Hope this is more to your liking

https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ
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Mike Beiter
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I do agree that the initial playthrough video was not very helpful.

I wish they explained what they were doing every step of the way, at least for the first season.

Several aspects of the game are still very fuzzy and these may be make it or break it factors for some.
 
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Joseph Courtight
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ArbitraryRanger wrote:
Actually somebody got their hands on a prototype copy and have posted it on youtube - I think it has better audio quality, albeit no real rules explanation. Hope this is more to your liking

https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ


Do not trust him he's an anonymous internet Sherriff of Nottingham fan.
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Pete R.
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Reason and sound judgement shouldn't be used in Kickstarter decisions. Quit trying to rock the boat and just give them your money like the rest of us.
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Justin Rizzo
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These comments are great. Keep them coming.

Thanks for the link to that proper play though.

The most helpful part was at : https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?t=76
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Justin Rizzo
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MarkyX wrote:
JustinRRizzo wrote:

I'd love to back this game. So, please, give a prototype to Wil Wheaton so you can take my money already. I need a proper play-through. Please. Do it. You must do it. Let us have a production quality playthrough.


Wil Wheaton and "proper playthrough" should not be in the same paragraph.


I mean, he has sold me on quite a few games after I dismissed them as looking boring.
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Isaac Wilkinson
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Yeah, not trying to be rude, but the few playthroughs I've seen him do were cringe worthy. In my book worse that CMON's attempt...
 
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Max Maloney
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CMON play videos are almost ALWAYS annoying and poorly done. They often have rules mistakes, which makes it even harder to know how the game will play.

But the rest of the campaign is usually well done and the rules will be released well ahead of the deadline for backing (for that matter, late backing will be an option for months after it ends).

So you should have a solid opportunity to read the rules for yourself before deciding.
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Justin Rizzo
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WolfMonkey wrote:
Yeah, not trying to be rude, but the few playthroughs I've seen him do were cringe worthy. In my book worse that CMON's attempt...


Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology. I think there is a lot of web hate for Wil that I'm not understanding. That being said, several of his Tabletop videos have sold me on games that I had previously ignored.

CMON needs to put out a quality video. I don't want to read a rulebook before deciding if a game is for me. I'd like to see someone give an overview and some play examples.
 
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Michael Penny
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I definitely wouldn't call will Wheaton's vids proper playthroughs but they can be quite entertaining and you get a feel of a sense of people having fun with all the games they play.

They certainly sold me on Tokaido which I thought looked boring but now I love it and have all the expansions.

This video, yeah I see where you're coming from.

CMON did a pretty good video for Kaosball which was much, much better and gave me a real idea of how the game plays.
This video, I put on when I'm having trouble sleeping and it does the job real good.

The people are quite hard to understand with the european accents (not their fault) and you really can't tell what's going on.

I have faith in Eric's designs though and loved Chaos in the old world and Blood rage. If it's at least half as good as those (I'm sure it will be) then we'll be fine.
 
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Justin Rizzo
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Probably for me is my wife and I both work as houseparents for elementary students. We work a 12 day on 3 day off schedule. Most of our game times is just the two of us, so investing $100+ in a game that requires 3P+ is a hard sell since we hardly ever get to play with others. That being said, I want it for the art and the minis and mechanics, but I need something to help guarantee that I will enjoy it. Words/text don't do the same thing as watching someone play it with gameplay descriptions. That's what Tabletop does, and it works for me.
 
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J P
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JustinRRizzo wrote:
WolfMonkey wrote:
Yeah, not trying to be rude, but the few playthroughs I've seen him do were cringe worthy. In my book worse that CMON's attempt...


Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology. I think there is a lot of web hate for Wil that I'm not understanding. That being said, several of his Tabletop videos have sold me on games that I had previously ignored.

CMON needs to put out a quality video. I don't want to read a rulebook before deciding if a game is for me. I'd like to see someone give an overview and some play examples.



If you don't want to read a rule book, at least read the KS updates that CMON has on the KS page. A couple of them have already gone into alliances and the differences between the clans and how the game flows.
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A Huynh
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ArbitraryRanger wrote:
Actually somebody got their hands on a prototype copy and have posted it on youtube - I think it has better audio quality, albeit no real rules explanation. Hope this is more to your liking

https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ


Didn't know there was a 'roll and move' mechanism in RS, thanks for the play through link!
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Jason Williams
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I guess I may just play a lot of boardgames, but it was pretty easy to understand what was going on in the play through video... You do things that lose honor, and your honor goes down. You have a card that gives you a point anytime something dies, when you commit seppuku so your guys die, you get extra points from that card. When you form an alliance with someone you get to take the bonus actions from political mandate cards that they choose and vice versa, if you have the lowest honor the Oni of Souls counts as 3 force.

yadda yadda yadda.... This game isn't the most complex thing in the world. I don't understand how people are gleaming zero information from a rules play through, it's the same sort of info. you'd get from a rahdo's run through except there's drastically less rules mistakes. and higher camera quality.
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Patrick Stangier
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MarkyX wrote:
JustinRRizzo wrote:

I'd love to back this game. So, please, give a prototype to Wil Wheaton so you can take my money already. I need a proper play-through. Please. Do it. You must do it. Let us have a production quality playthrough.


Wil Wheaton and "proper playthrough" should not be in the same paragraph.

Apart from that TableTop does not do prototypes. One of the requirements for a game to be featured on TableTop is that is readily available. In fact that is the first criteria.

From the TableTop submission guidelines:
Quote:
1. Your game must be available at retail outlets when its episode of TableTop airs. We will not consider games that are in development, in stages of crowd funding, or otherwise not available for gamers to purchase and play.
...
Please note, Rule 1 is non-negotiable.
And no, that bolding is not from me, it's that way in the submission guidelines.


Also this is worth repeating
Dormammu wrote:
CMON play videos are almost ALWAYS annoying and poorly done. They often have rules mistakes, which makes it even harder to know how the game will play.
Never judge a CMoN game by their horrible gameplay videos. Wait for the rules (they will be pubished before the end of the campaign) and deceide on that.
 
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Shanti Massey
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JustinRRizzo wrote:
The play-though video on the KS page is atrocious. The audio is intolerable. I don't mean that to be rude, it's just intolerable. However, the burning issue is I have no idea what's going on. I'm just watching people play the game...that's not selling it for me. They might as well be speaking Japanese, as their "commentary" isn't doing anything helpful.

Some of us didn't play Blood Rage. Blood Rage didn't look interesting to me. The mechanics in this one *sound* more interesting, but for $100+ I want to know they are going to be to my taste. For example, how are alliances going to work with only 3P? Is someone going to be left out every time? Won't that suck?

I'd love to back this game. So, please, give a prototype to Wil Wheaton so you can take my money already. I need a proper play-through. Please. Do it. You must do it. Let us have a production quality playthrough.

All sarcasm aside. Honestly, put something together so noobs like me can actually understand the gameplay and decide to back it.


Not to be a complete jerk, but I think after the first 2 million, you could consider them to have this whole "sell your game" thing locked down pretty well already.
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Mr. Octavius
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The play through video was fine, I had no problem getting the gist of the game. But you don't like the video they have up, you don't want to read the rules, you don't want to read the updates or other posts on these forums (as both have already discussed tbe 3 player issue)...

The game will be available at retail after it's printed, at which point lots of people will have all sorts of videos up. Maybe you'll just have to wait for that.
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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* We will still get the rulebook, probably next week.
* Michael posted some tactics in the last update.

I don't think the vid was so horrible.
And well, I don't think CMON is worried that they won't sell enough copies anyway!
cool
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Pietro Pomella
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JustinRRizzo wrote:
The mechanics in this one *sound* more interesting, but for $100+ I want to know they are going to be to my taste. For example, how are alliances going to work with only 3P? Is someone going to be left out every time? Won't that suck?


I agree that the video was not what I would call an exhaustive resource (although the extended version was lovely and clarified most rules as far as I am concerned), but a couple of the updates might be helpful based on what you are asking:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/rising-su...
This one is about players being "left out"of alliances and some advantages it presents.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/rising-su...
This one gives an overview of the different clans, which admittedly does not explain the rules, but provides lots of useful details.

Also as others have said the rules should be posted near the end of the campaign, so the game should get more accessible before it's over.
Hope that helps, cheers!
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Patrick Reynolds
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I think one of the reasons people say that the gameplay video sucks (maybe the biggest reason) is that they expected a "how to play" video with rules explanation, but instead got a fairly basic video of people playing the game with little in the way of rules.

In other words, the video is exactly what they said it is, and people are mad because it's not what they wanted.

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Gavin Kenny
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I think I picked up the gist of the rules from the gameplay video. There are still a few bits of information I'm missing (like how much each player scores at game end for having won different numbers of provinces) but other than that most of the information on how to play you seem to be able to glean from the video.

The people playing seemed to be having fun, making and breaking alliances. This gave me a good sense of how fun the game will be with a good group of people. It might struggle with a particularly vindictive group who take betrayals very seriously and won't ally with a betrayer again.
 
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Justin Rizzo
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Pietro Pomella wrote:
I agree that the video was not what I would call an exhaustive resource (although the extended version was lovely and clarified most rules as far as I am concerned), but a couple of the updates might be helpful based on what you are asking:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/rising-su...
This one is about players being "left out"of alliances and some advantages it presents.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/rising-su...
This one gives an overview of the different clans, which admittedly does not explain the rules, but provides lots of useful details.

Also as others have said the rules should be posted near the end of the campaign, so the game should get more accessible before it's over.
Hope that helps, cheers!


Cheers for this mate. Somehow I missed reading that alliance update.

pkreynolds wrote:
I think one of the reasons people say that the gameplay video sucks (maybe the biggest reason) is that they expected a "how to play" video with rules explanation, but instead got a fairly basic video of people playing the game with little in the way of rules.

In other words, the video is exactly what they said it is, and people are mad because it's not what they wanted.



The video is pretty terrible for a variety of reasons. For me the sound quality was atrocious and every time that woman spoke (or laughed) my ears were pierced because it was so loud. It's called equalization. Apply it to your audio.

It was also the most boring, uninformative gameplay video I have seen. Since I'm new to the hobby (November), I have been watching a LOT of gameplay videos. I felt like I was watching This is Spinal Tap, but nope, it was the real gameplay video.
 
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Jeffrey Nolin
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pkreynolds wrote:
I think one of the reasons people say that the gameplay video sucks (maybe the biggest reason) is that they expected a "how to play" video with rules explanation, but instead got a fairly basic video of people playing the game with little in the way of rules.

In other words, the video is exactly what they said it is, and people are mad because it's not what they wanted.


I got a good understanding from the 1st season video, then a better understanding watching that part again when I watched the full game video. Reading the updates before and after watching them also helped. For me, it was much more informative than reading a rulebook. I thought that I wouldn't really like a negotiation game, but the video changed my mind.
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