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Subject: Complaints rss

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Dan Likos
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What are the general complaints about this game?

Broken? Favors Merchants? AP? Long? 2 Player sucks?

I'm making these up of course... just trying to give you ideas of what I'm looking for.

Also, are there any specific fixes in the expansion that you would suggest jumping right in with?

Thanks.
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Cameron McKenzie
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There can be a lot of downtime especially when players are doing port actions.
And the game can come down to luck quite frequently - sometimes you are just brutally beaten over and over, and other times your score shoots up instantly.
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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dlikos wrote:
What are the general complaints about this game?

Broken? Favors Merchants? AP? Long? 2 Player sucks?

I'm making these up of course... just trying to give you ideas of what I'm looking for.

Also, are there any specific fixes in the expansion that you would suggest jumping right in with?

Thanks.


Well half of the complaints are that pirates are over-powered, while the other half of the complaints are that merchants are over-powered, so make of that what you will

In all seriousness, while I do love this game there are two complaints that I feel do have some merit. The game is long (downtime can be an issue), and the combat rules are a bit fiddly and have a bit of a learning curve.

Neither of these wreck the game for me, but if you are extremely averse to either of these things caution is recommended.

As for the expansion, the modules are more about adding fun and options than fixing anything. Other than the one revised ship card, I( would leave out most of the expansion for your first game or two.
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Crazy Adam
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Very much enjoy this game. The common complaints I've come about personally are:

- rules are quite lengthy and the game can be a chore to teach;

- combat system doesn't feel intuitive and players might continue to reference the rulebook during combat which bogs down the experience;

- Merchant players are jealous of Marauder players who get to sail and plunder and attack, etc. while Merchants just feel like their best course of action is selling goods at ports (yawn);

- Game is heavy on story and theme but light on interesting game mechanics.

I agree with one of these, partially agree on a few others, and disagree on one. Again, these are what friends have told me when I have taught them and played the game.
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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If you're looking for complaints, search the forum. You'll find plenty of half baked ones from people who had played once and didn't know what they were talking about. Reading the rules and playing a couple of times to get a feel for how this fine game works would be a far better use of your time.
arrrh
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Dan Likos
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Sphere wrote:
If you're looking for complaints, search the forum. You'll find plenty of half baked ones from people who had played once and didn't know what they were talking about. Reading the rules and playing a couple of times to get a feel for how this fine game works would be a far better use of your time.
arrrh


But finding complaints from the people who play the game are probably much more useful. Most players who subscribe to a games forum, and thus would read my request, are already fans. I don't want half baked opinions from people who tried one time and dismissed the game.
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James Megee
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We just played this on Wed. and each of us played the "Merchant". I was just about to go rogue with a Galleon when my wife won. After the game I felt that SOMEONE needed to be a Pirate. It was fun, but just a little boring with all of us playing Merchants. The NPC Pirates also came out late so they never really affected any Merchant movements.

That being said, I still really like this game. Somebody just need to get aggressive!
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Jim Patching
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My only complaint is that it's just a bit long for what it is. If it were shorter I would play this a lot more.
 
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Harry Angel
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Hi Dan,

The game itself is very fun (i am a big fan) but you need more time to learn and master the rules of play. Also the sea battles vs NPC's and palyers may eat a lot of playtime.
Some turns pass quickly if you use only move action, but it happens rarely especially if you want to develop more aggressive strategy.
Main goal is not hard to reach if you keep an eye of the board. `
I recommend first to play the base game couple of times and if you like it try and the expansion.

Wish you luck!
 
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Dan Likos
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Sikuma wrote:
Hi Dan,

The game itself is very fun (i am a big fan) but you need more time to learn and master the rules of play. Also the sea battles vs NPC's and palyers may eat a lot of playtime.
Some turns pass quickly if you use only move action, but it happens rarely especially if you want to develop more aggressive strategy.
Main goal is not hard to reach if you keep an eye of the board. `
I recommend first to play the base game couple of times and if you like it try and the expansion.

Wish you luck!


Thanks, I'm still looking into whether or not to pick this one up. So this is my way of getting some "negative reviews" from people who know and like the game.

So as sphere suggested playing, that would be better use of my time, isn't possible.

 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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Another thing I'd suggest is to build a GeekBuddy list. If you had one like mine, you could get the thoughts and opinions of a trusted group of advisers with a single click. (On my GB list I see 21 ratings of 9 and above, with comments about why those ratings were given.)
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Rob Tarr
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One of my complaints is actually setup/teardown time. There are quite a lot of little bits that need to be set up. Having a good storage solution definitely helps, but there's still several decks to shuffle, lots of tokens to add to the board, etc., etc., etc.

But once the game is going, I actually have very few complains. Combat and merchant raids became intuitive after my second game.

I think maybe I could go for a little more player interaction but that's all on the players, not the game. There's nothing mechanically that prevents it, it's just that the people I tend to play with USUALLY go after the NPCs (or no one at all) until and unless someone is cruising around with a pile of gold in their hold and needs to be taught a wet, salty lesson.
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Pouyan A.
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tarrkid wrote:
One of my complaints is actually setup/teardown time. There are quite a lot of little bits that need to be set up. Having a good storage solution definitely helps, but there's still several decks to shuffle, lots of tokens to add to the board, etc., etc., etc.

But once the game is going, I actually have very few complains. Combat and merchant raids became intuitive after my second game.

I think maybe I could go for a little more player interaction but that's all on the players, not the game. There's nothing mechanically that prevents it, it's just that the people I tend to play with USUALLY go after the NPCs (or no one at all) until and unless someone is cruising around with a pile of gold in their hold and needs to be taught a wet, salty lesson.


^This. Setup and takedown is a pain. I've mitigated it a little bit by having each of the components in its own ziploc bag. But the cards are still a pain to shuffle, as you mentioned. I have to shuffle them spread out on the table, because they're too small to be bent.

The game itself is amazing, IMO. Definitely takes a few sessions to get a feel for the mechanics. But nothing is flawed.
 
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Kyle
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calidoggg wrote:
But the cards are still a pain to shuffle, as you mentioned. I have to shuffle them spread out on the table, because they're too small to be bent.
A little trick to reduce setup time: don't shuffle all of the decks every time.

The Glory deck is massive for how much it gets used, and it can take a few plays before you'll even get halfway through.


With the Mission deck you'll use at most half a dozen each time you play (less if no one pursues them), and players will have to be hitting Rumors pretty hard to make it even halfway through that deck.
Add in the expansion which doubles the size of both of those decks, and you can play multiple games in a row before needing to actually shuffle either. With enough time passing in between you really won't need to shuffle them ever (as long as you put the used cards on the bottom every time).

You won't get the perfect random distribution, but with every card being completely different that distribution won't matter much at all - in fact, by not shuffling you'll make it much more likely that you'll get to see all of the cards in each deck.

The cargo deck is the only one that does need to be shuffled, but since you're already doing that every time it runs out, it should be going back into the box relatively well-mixed at the end of each game.

----------------


Back to the original post, the only really consistent complaints you'll hear about the game are the overall length and the downtime between turns, which are closely tied together. They are valid complaints, especially for newer players, but once everyone has played a few times both of those will reduce quite a bit, and with an experienced group (or a lower player number) it drops down to a very reasonable time span. There have been a number of variants and ideas proposed to fight downtime that you can find scattered throughout the forums, but in general, you can keep it under control by making sure everyone is paying attention to the game even when it's not their turn - also turn off the TV, phones, tablets, laptops, children, and anything else that would cause frequent distractions.
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Quote:
One of my complaints is actually setup/teardown time. There are quite a lot of little bits that need to be set up. Having a good storage solution definitely helps, but there's still several decks to shuffle, lots of tokens to add to the board, etc., etc., etc.


Yep, me also. Plano products help, but with the expansion, it gets hard to fit everything into one box (my general rule).
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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I've been thinking of trying a variant where each "round" of the game, players simultaneously choose "sail" or "port".

The porting players then get dealt out goods, but don't do anything with them yet. Then the sailing players take their turns by doing two movements and one scouting action. Then the port players finish up their turns.

Players can't be scouted during rounds they chose port (there's no need to distinguish between port spaces and sea spaces in this variant). The storms afflict the penalties based on the action chosen in the previous round and the current round respectively.

This would reduce downtime because nobody is waiting on the porting players to "think". They do all of their thinking while the other players are taking their turns.

Does it seem reasonable?
 
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Brian Jordano

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The only complaint I have is player down time during Port actions. However, there is a variant to allow port actions to take place while the next player takes their turn. The player next to the Port action makes sure things are being done legitimately. It keeps the game going. We have a blast with this one, and I'm certain it's in my top 10 board games.
 
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Crazy Adam
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Woelf wrote:
also turn off the...children...




If only!
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Austin Johnston
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I wouldn't pay much attention at all to the balance complaints, unless they're from someone who has played the game several times. I think many new players perceive merchants to be "OP," but that's because they don't know how to play pirate effectively. Once you learn all the piratey tricks, I think the game is pretty well balanced overall, though IMO there are a handful of pirate captains that are really really powerful in the hands of an experienced player.

Downtime was never a huge deal for us after we learned the rules (which did take 2-3 plays through). We like to do variable turn order each turn and instead of drawing a cube, we roll off. With variable order there's always the possibility that your turn could be next so it tends to keep people engaged.
 
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Boss Beau Blasterfire
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I haven't had the game very long and therefore can't complain about too many things at this point. I have one complaint thus far and it is that setup and clean up can be a chore, but even then it a minor gripe at best. The thing I hate most about setup is putting down tokens that are to be revealed later. Because I have it so much, I have provided my own workaround as I do so with other games that use the same mechanic. I basically add my own tokens to the game and remove and replace as necessary. This allows me to lay out tokens quicker as I don't have to worry about them being revealed and such. When it is time to reveal, just draw from a bag and replace the token on the board. Saves time setting up without creating a lot over overhead during play time.

As far as cleaning up goes, the base game box is full when you store the expansion with it. This means that time and effort needs to be taken when putting the game away. This complaint I will always gladly take though as it means there is no wasted space in the box which is rare as many games/boxes are mostly air inside.
 
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