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Subject: Play before winning? rss

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Sandy
Utah
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I played a game tonight with 2 other people. The rulebook could've been a lot better. It addresses a lot of things, but it doesn't address some other things - like for example it never explicitly says you have to play the stones you get from the bag. It implies it from the example, but it's not spelled out. Also, it gives plenty of examples of replacing stones with others but not one stone replacing a stack of multiple winds, which we found from a thread is allowed.

That being said, I have yet another question... and it's a pretty major one, which I also feel is unclear.

The rulebook says you win when a sage to your right is unable to move. The game also goes counter-clockwise (so you win if the player after you is unable to move). However, it doesn't really specify whether they have a chance to "try" to move by drawing the correct combination of tiles (e.g. if they're surrounded by fire, a water, a mountain, and a wind... or if they're surrounded by water, simply a water to move the river away... or wind to put on top of another wind to be able to jump over an obstacle etc.).

It makes sense thematically to allow them to draw tiles to try to move away by attempting to remove whatever's surrounding them. However, we were not sure the entire time whether we're even getting the win condition right or whether indeed like in the manual you win "immediately." Immediately (without a chance to draw) sounds like it's not great, because basically you have to make sure you always have a LOT of free space around you... but I have no idea.
 
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Josiah Leis
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Merino
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I spent 100 GG and all I got was this stupid overtext.....
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Actually it does specify on page 3 of the rules under "Winning", though I agree it could be clearer.

"You win the game the moment you surround the opposing player's Sage, so that the Sage cannot move." (emphasis is mine)

So the other player does not get another turn it is game over instantly.
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Deep Fish
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It seems useful if players critique the rule book to improve it's readability and clarity and reduce vagueness.

But I read a little bit only and it was clear you "nominate how many stones you'll draw" from the bag before using them all. I suppose what you're saying is that it is not clear enough that once draw "STONES MUST BE PLACED (and hence used - not discarded back into the bag)"?

Strangely enough I read it clearly that only the Earth pile cannot be replaced. A stack of wind can be replaced with one fire. But perhaps your criticism is good and there needs to be a reference summary being explicit on that rule (all in one place)?

Your last criticism I did not know the answer to, so that appears to buta good spot for being explicit on what the win condition is.

Is there any extra commentary on why the "immediately" rule was chosen? That would be interesting background to explain the rule and help contextualize it (and remember it)?

How did you enjoy the game overall, btw? I have gobbled up info on it but await more favourable shipping conditions before buying it.
 
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Mike Richie
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Rhode Island
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We went with an immediate capture once a Sage cannot move for a couple reasons.

When we were testing and allowed a player to try to escape it only prolonged the game without adding any real value. It also increased the "luck" factor over strategy.

Also, in like games like chess, where the goal is to capture, immediate capture is a tried an true design ascetic.

To answer questions earlier in the thread, these rules were run by a lot of people who found them to be quite clear. This is not an excuse, because clearly there is still room for some minor clarifications which we are working on and are grateful we are receiving from the community.
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Quinn Swanger
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Holly Springs
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^^^ aesthetic
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