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Subject: Resource exhaustion vs. player count rss

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LCG 74160
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The rules contain:
Quote:
In the unlikely case the general supply runs out of Water or a Resource/Worker type, consider it unavailable until the general supply is replenished.


However, the number of resources available is not linked to the player count.

One evacuation reward (Overwhelming Power) gives 3 VPs for each Neutronium so one player may want to grab as many of the starting 15 Neutronium as possible. This would be much easier in a 2 player games compared to a 4 player game.

So, should the number of resources depend on the player count? or be unlimited to have the same playing experience regardless of the player count?
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David Turczi
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lcg74160 wrote:
The rules contain:
Quote:
In the unlikely case the general supply runs out of Water or a Resource/Worker type, consider it unavailable until the general supply is replenished.


However, the number of resources available is not linked to the player count.

One evacuation reward (Overwhelming Power) gives 3 VPs for each Neutronium so one player may want to grab as many of the starting 15 Neutronium as possible. This would be much easier in a 2 player games compared to a 4 player game.

So, should the number of resources depend on the player count? or be unlimited to have the same playing experience regardless of the player count?


The most neutronium I've ever seen grabbed was 13, with 4 newbies, one of them focused on grabbing neutronium and nothing else, all the rest just built one or two power plants, and didn't need neutronium for anything else. It still didn't run out, and he didn't even win.

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Robert Pratt
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I do not see how it would be possible to run out of a resource as the mine only gets refilled at the beginning of an Era and the most that can be present as one time is 3 of a resource and there are only a couple of cards that allow for that (in the mine pool and not counting the right side resources).

For instance, I do not see it possible to run out of nutronium as the most that would be "accessible" in a game would be 7 in the mine pool'S top space (if every card before impact called for one) and then 2 two more for every player (if they all started with nutronium, which they don't, and everyone warped one in). That's the 15 that starts in the pool and I don't see that ever being an issue.

The most-likely to run out of would be titanium as everyone starts with it, it is the most common in the mine pool, is always present in the bottom right spot in the mines, and can be warped in. However, I don't believe holding out on titanium for any kind of possible endgame bonus would be more beneficial than building a building (or buildings) that will be at least equal to the amount of points that the resources would give as titanium is needed for just about everyone building (there are some instances where titanium can be almost completely, or completely, removed from the cost of a building if the right conditions are presented/met but the need for the other resources would keep that player from stockpiling up on resources).

I've done the math and ran through "worst case" scenarios and cannot see something like this becoming a problem. However, I will admit that this has not been tested for me in a real 4-player game and was just done in thinking through what my wife and I have done in a project involving this game. I would like to hear if this has actually be a problem for anyone. Personally, even with wanting to get the most points out of an evac condition or bonus, I have never seen my wife or I be able to hold to anymore than 3 or 4 (maybe 5) of a single resource, except for water, as the buildings balance out the lost points and provide other needed benefits.

I will admit that I do have concerns about the ratio of single-water to five-water pieces as I believe it could make the game a little frustrating with four players. I think the game should have double the amount of single-water pieces as they are received and used so quickly that it is often a greater hassle to continuously exchange 1s for 5s and then back again than it is to keep counting the pile of 1s that are next to my board.
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thevillagetuba wrote:
I do not see how it would be possible to run out of a resource as the mine only gets refilled at the beginning of an Era [...]


A player can trade with the nomads several times within the same era. Also, several buildings do provide resources, sometimes for free (e.g. water on some Life Support buildings).
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Robert Pratt
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lcg74160 wrote:
thevillagetuba wrote:
I do not see how it would be possible to run out of a resource as the mine only gets refilled at the beginning of an Era [...]


A player can trade with the nomads several times within the same era. Also, several buildings do provide resources, sometimes for free (e.g. water on some Life Support buildings).


This is true (and I can't believe I forgot about the nomads) but I still don't see how that would be viable strategy as a lot of buildings would be of equal or greater points and provide more benefits. Even with the nimads, I don't see running out as being an issue, but I would like to hear from those that have had this problem, how the situation came to be, and how where the hoarder, or hoarders, ended compared to everyone else.

I believe that if something were to run out, the nomads and warping something in should be unaffected by this (requiring possibly the addition of a couple of the cardboard chits) as unavailability now should not effect what will be available in the future or what was available with the nomads mined/discovered their resources.

What does everything of that interpretation of the theme/rules? David/Victor?

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Barry Miller
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Getting back to the OP's question...

In my experience... games where resources are purposely limited (as they are here), then either...
- The number of resources available to all the players is determined by player count.
or,
- The availability of resources is by design, meant to be tighter for higher player counts. I.e., the game's design takes into account that a 2-player game enjoys greater availability of resources than a 4-player game, and modifies the gameplay accordingly.

So which is it, for this game? Obviously it's not the first option, so it must be the second. But as I'm only half-way through my first solo game, I'm not informed enough to draw a conclusion.

But I do feel safe in saying that if neither of the above options satisfies Anachrony, then it sort of begs the question as to why the resources are limited? The notion that experience indicates it is unlikely to ever run out is completely irrelevant to the OP's question, IMHO.

And please don't mind my contrary tone of voice... I still love this game so far! I just think the OP has a good question, which hasn't been answered yet.

 
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Robert Pratt
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bgm1961 wrote:

Getting back to the OP's question...

In my experience... games where resources are purposely limited (as they are here), then either...
- The number of resources available to all the players is determined by player count.
or,
- The availability of resources is by design, meant to be tighter for higher player counts. I.e., the game's design takes into account that a 2-player game enjoys greater availability of resources than a 4-player game, and modifies the gameplay accordingly.

So which is it, for this game? Obviously it's not the first option, so it must be the second. But as I'm only half-way through my first solo game, I'm not informed enough to draw a conclusion.

But I do feel safe in saying that if neither of the above options satisfies Anachrony, then it sort of begs the question as to why the resources are limited? The notion that experience indicates it is unlikely to ever run out is completely irrelevant to the OP's question, IMHO.

And please don't mind my contrary tone of voice... I still love this game so far! I just think the OP has a good question, which hasn't been answered yet.



The game will offer a tighter experience as you add more players as you use the same board for 2 and 3 players, which makes the game tighter, and then only one more hex is added for capital actions when you move to 4 players. From this it seems clear that the game-play experience tighter when more players are added to the game. Regardless, I do not think that a depletion of the resources should be much of an issue, but it should feel like a much more intense experience with more people.
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Marco Tuzzi
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I think the point in OP is not running out of resources, but the points you can get from them (mainly from evacuation bonus) being potentially higher in a 2-players game than in a 4-players game, just because the resources are more spread out the more players you have in a game.
 
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Adrian Schmidt
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Tootzo wrote:
I think the point in OP is not running out of resources, but the points you can get from them (mainly from evacuation bonus) being potentially higher in a 2-players game than in a 4-players game, just because the resources are more spread out the more players you have in a game.


Yup, I think so too. But there's more of everything per player in a 2-player game, so both players will be getting more points from most if not all sources. I don't really see the problem to be honest…
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Marco Tuzzi
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SpecularRain wrote:
Tootzo wrote:
I think the point in OP is not running out of resources, but the points you can get from them (mainly from evacuation bonus) being potentially higher in a 2-players game than in a 4-players game, just because the resources are more spread out the more players you have in a game.


Yup, I think so too. But there's more of everything per player in a 2-player game, so both players will be getting more points from most if not all sources. I don't really see the problem to be honest…


I actually don't see it too
I just wanted to point this out because it seemed to me that most posts were mainly referring to just running out of resources
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Fabien Ducat
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For me the problem is the rule is useless and would have better be
- Consider that every resource is infinite... we have plenty of tokens in addition to plastic cubes if needed !!
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Barry Miller
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Bardatir wrote:
For me the problem is the rule is useless and would have better be
- Consider that every resource is infinite... we have plenty of tokens in addition to plastic cubes if needed !!

Yeah, I agree. This is pretty much what I was getting at with my post above.

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