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Subject: Trump issues "hard power" budget rss

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Andre
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http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/politics/donald-trump-budget-b...

Reducing funding for the State Dept, EPA, and completely phasing out some agencies, or relegating them to the dead pile via funding cuts (CPB is mentioned in the article). Increasing military spending so we can protect our international interests.

EPA cuts are the most concerning, but based on Trumps past statements about global warming, it should not come as a total surprise that he is cutting their meal rations. I for one, am not sure i can pass judgement on the increase in military spending, since I am not sure which programs are targeted for increase, but I cannot help but feel that if the military used better accounting and tracking procedures, that they could get this money out of wasteful spending, with no need for an increase in funding. Oh, and the budget also has a few billion in it for building that wall at the Mexican border.

Opine here, on the wisdom of his budget.

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Jasper
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Has the Mexican reinbursement for the cost of the wall been factored in?

Just wondering.
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Andre
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Venga2 wrote:
Has the Mexican reinbursement for cost of the wall been factored in?

Just wondering.


Laughs, that should have been posted in green!
 
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Wendell
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Cutting State funding by 30% is lunacy.

Ask the generals. The Pentagon is the biggest supporter of a healthy State Dept (and USAID, etc) budget. They understand the importance of diplomacy, development, having people with country and subject matter expertise, public diplomacy, etc. These things advance American interests, protect American citizens abroad, help American industries (and by extension, American workers), and make America safer and more prosperous.

AND - makes it less likely 'hard power' will actually have to be used, which saves lives and money.
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Daniel Kearns
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20% cuts to NIH and DOE as well.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/03/nih-doe-office-scienc...
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Sam I am
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We all know what happens when you skimp on embassy security.


It'll be interesting when the embassies start serving Kraft cheese dinner at state functions. The Canadians will be happy at least (as long as you throw some gravy on it).
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Sam I am
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dkearns wrote:


If you don't produce new science then there's nothing to deny.
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Walt
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One thing Trump wants is 12 carriers. We have 10, one just decomissioned, one being worked up (USS Ford, which has gone way over budget).

Carriers are nice in a friendly environment, but we managed with 11, even when we were conducting ops in Iraq (from the Gulf and the Mediterranean) and in Afghanistan. We already have more carrier capacity than all other countries in the world, several times over, without even counting the Marine helicopter/Harrier carriers.

Several threats have appeared in recent years, and it's not clear we have succeeded in defending against them. We seem to have a lot of "Victory Disease".

• Hypersonic missiles provide very little time for intercept, and in addition to any explosive warhead, they have an enormous amount of kinetic energy.

• Smart (brilliant?) missiles, some hypersonic, work as a group. One missile will fly higher and relay what it sees to the others, below the radar horizon in wave clutter. If the high missile gets shot down, another of the group will take its place.

• Small nuclear subs, like the French Saphir, are much harder to detect than our huge Los Angeles and Virginia class attack subs (much less the even bigger Seawolf class). In exercises, Saphir has successfully penetrated a US carrier battle group and "sunk" the carrier.

• Even smaller Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) subs are even quieter. A Swedish Gotland-class AIP sub was contracted to help train the US fleet in San Diego. It could penetrate US defenses easily. The Navy wanted it for a year, but then doubled the contract. The Navy found the sub demoralizing since they couldn't stop it: like Saphir, it routinely "sank" US supercarriers.

• An improved version of the ancient Russian Kilo-class sub is widely exported, and may now be comparable in coastal waters to Saphir and Gotland. The overwhelming superiority over Russian subs may be gone.

• As Operation Crossroads Baker showed in 1946, a carrier battle group can be taken out by one small nuke detonated under water, such as from a nuclear torpedo, depth charge, or mine.

The extra carrier is the only thing I've heard of definitely. It would require escort ships.

Most of US air capability, except for 187 AF F-22s, will depend on F-35s, as yet unproven, except in the aspect of being hideously expensive.

In my opinion, throwing more money at the military is a mistake until we reform procurement.
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Steven Woodcock
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I haven't looked at it deeply yet (too busy with work), but what I'm hearing on the various news channels seem he's moving in the right direction.

I'll know about it later. It does to be rather conservative, which is probably a refreshing change of pace.


Ferret
 
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J.D. Hall
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Anyone who is surprised by this proposed budget has not been listening over the last year. Now, whether or not it goes through Congress is a different matter entirely.
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Edgar the Woebringer
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Huh, and here I thought he wanted "America First"...

while we are playing with our military toys we are certainly try to give other countries a boost in becoming powerhouses in science (by our diminishing presence in that area). Heck China--China!--is doing more about climate change than we intend to...

Pesky arts and sciences, who needs 'em when you have the most carriers!

Make the Dark Ages Great Again!
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Tom McVey
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abadolato01 wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/politics/donald-trump-budget-b...

Reducing funding for the State Dept, EPA, and completely phasing out some agencies, or relegating them to the dead pile via funding cuts (CPB is mentioned in the article). Increasing military spending so we can protect our international interests.

EPA cuts are the most concerning,


Research cuts (ARPA-E, other agencies) are more concerning long-term. The post-WW2 position of U.S. being by far the leader in R&D is pretty resilient, but big cuts to research are going to force researchers in their 20s and 30s either out of research or to other countries, so it's at least a loss to the U.S. and possibly to the world in general.

Cutting State programs - like student exchanges - and R&D programs have long-term effects. A lot of the benefits of this spending aren't tangible, but having the leaders of an allied (or even adversary) country having done grad school or a post-doc at a U.S. university 2-3 decades back benefits the U.S. greatly when you have to later negotiate with those countries. So the full effects of the R&D cuts and the DoS cuts we won't feel for a few decades.

Trump's fueling the tax cuts by using up the seedcorn.

Quote:
but based on Trumps past statements about global warming, it should not come as a total surprise that he is cutting their meal rations. I for one, am not sure i can pass judgement on the increase in military spending, since I am not sure which programs are targeted for increase


We're getting a marginal increase in the military, in return for gutting foreign policy and aid and zeroing out certain agencies. It's a tiny increase in hard power in return for a major downgrade in soft power. And that's just Dept. State.
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Dickie Crickets
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Daniel Kearns
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tmcvey wrote:

Research cuts (ARPA-E, other agencies) are more concerning long-term. The post-WW2 position of U.S. being by far the leader in R&D is pretty resilient, but big cuts to research are going to force researchers in their 20s and 30s either out of research or to other countries, so it's at least a loss to the U.S. and possibly to the world in general.


Research funding has been struggling along for about 16 years and only recently increasing to a near, non-panic level.

These new cuts should make most of our trained international scientists leave for their home country which weakens us and strengthens them.

China has been gearing up to take our place as science leader for a while now.

I've held the idea that China is the only thing that can save US research, as I doubted very highly that Republican leaders would be willing to concede that China is better, more innovative, more technologically advanced, than we primarily European-looking folk.

And ultimately, scientific research is the primary source of new jobs.

But I'm not sure that matters anymore. I'm not entirely sure what matters anymore but guns and the Bible are always safe bets.

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Mac Mcleod
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eaglebeak wrote:


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trum...
Quote:

The President has often complained about his predecessor’s trips to the golf course, yet Donald Trump has just returned from his fifth golfing expedition in four weeks.

Mr Trump played golf just two weeks after stepping into the Oval Office, while Barack Obama and George W Bush made it four and five months into their first terms respectively.


---

I'm most concerned about the state department cuts. That seems to be saving a few pennies while increasing the risk of a major war at a cost of trillions of dollars. i.e. penny wise, pound foolish.
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Tom McVey
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Tall_Walt wrote:
One thing Trump wants is 12 carriers. We have 10, one just decomissioned, one being worked up (USS Ford, which has gone way over budget).

Carriers are nice in a friendly environment, but we managed with 11, even when we were conducting ops in Iraq (from the Gulf and the Mediterranean) and in Afghanistan. We already have more carrier capacity than all other countries in the world, several times over, without even counting the Marine helicopter/Harrier carriers.


Post-testing of the DF-21D by the PLA, a carrier's a multi-billion dollar liability as far as playing a role in the any prospective conflict in the S. China sea or the Sea of Japan. Why build a $13 bn military asset that is now exquisitely vulnerable and too expensive in terms of blood and treasure to lose?
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J.D. Hall
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A quick and dirty review of what is in the proposed budget:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/16/winners-and-loser...#

I think this budget puts to rest the notion Donald Trump isn't a conservative. It's what the Tea Party wing of the GOP has been clamoring for these past six years. But it's more "robbing Peter to pay Paul" than it actually cuts government spending.
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Walt
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remorseless1 wrote:
I think this budget puts to rest the notion Donald Trump isn't a conservative. It's what the Tea Party wing of the GOP has been clamoring for these past six years. But it's more "robbing Peter to pay Paul" than it actually cuts government spending.

A lot of Conservatives would argue with cutting State, Justice, Agriculture, Commerce. Cutting Transportation doesn't match his infrastructure promise. Remember that the Department of Energy is mostly about nuclear weapons.
 
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Chris Binkowski
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$20,000,000,000,000 in debt. The funny money was never going to last.

Cuts are inevitable not optional.
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Andre
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Sarxis wrote:
$20,000,000,000,000 in debt. The funny money was never going to last.

Cuts are inevitable not optional.


Deficit spending got us here. Although I agree cuts can be made, one can be judicious about where the cuts are made. How about cutting the military spending? And here is a novel idea, that sadly, will not happen, but how about we only spend what we can afford? If we cannot afford to pay for it in the fiscal year that the budget is issued, don't buy it. It's that simple. Although let's be frank, with the current Congress, and the entrenched idea that deficit spending is OK, it is unlikely we will ever balance the budget, unless we default on interest payments or borrowed principal.
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Tobias Strobe
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Sarxis wrote:
$20,000,000,000,000 in debt. The funny money was never going to last.

Cuts are inevitable not optional.


And Trump's budget doesn't decrease that number at all.
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Edgar the Woebringer
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Right, like cuts to our military...which already is huge beyond belief.

I guess we are going to need it once we cut back on diplomatic efforts, which are the way to head off future conflict. That's some long-term thinking there, like buying 2 tons of flypaper after taking out all the windows to save costs on upkeep.

I especially like this one:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/03/here-ar...


So the exact people Trump promised to help. I wonder if, maybe, he didn't really intend to help them, and used them to get elected....crazy thinking I know.

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Mac Mcleod
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Sarxis wrote:
$20,000,000,000,000 in debt. The funny money was never going to last.

Cuts are inevitable not optional.


Actually

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/03/12/trump-budget-republican...

President Trump's proposed budget looks to increase that to $29,000,000,000,000 over the next 10 years.

Republicans are due to raise the debt ceiling this week (may have already done it). Not seeing any republicans protesting against or attempting to block raising the debt ceiling this time as they have repeatedly over the last 8 years. What's changed?
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Andre
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http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Intersting real time site. Key figures that struck my interest;

Corporate tax revenue is about 1/5 of personal income tax revenue. Ouch, looks like John Q Citizen is picking up much of the tab here on the revenue side.

42.5 million people living in poverty in the USA, given its population, that is 1 in every 9 Americans.

Debt per taxpayer $166,000. Shall I come collect your check today? We are already past the point, where most Americans will EVER have that kind of money in the bank. In fact most Americans might have a hard time coughing up their check for the INTEREST on the debt, labeled at $7,653.

And the whopper, US unfunded liabilities. Take a look, it represents an individual liability of $879,000 per taxpayer.

With statistics like these, it is pretty easy to say that, unless DRASTIC measures are taken, we will never balance the budget.

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Daniel Kearns
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abadolato01 wrote:

With statistics like these, it is pretty easy to say that, unless DRASTIC measures are taken, we will never balance the budget.


We need to balance the budget while also continually providing tax cuts.

This is important.

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