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Subject: Isaac, we love you, but you're crazy rss

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Brent Warner
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Having spent a bit of time thinking about Isaac's announcement of the 28-day real-time campaign for the reprint Kickstarter, I'm really unsure about how this would play out.

- For my group, Gloomhaven takes about 2 hours to play. We generally play once a week, twice at the most. There's no way we could complete an entire scenario every day for any length of time.
- Once you fall behind, it would be almost impossible to catch up without just skipping a bunch of stuff.
- People could obviously participate in the decisions without playing the scenarios, but knowing how spoiler-averse many of us are, I think people would be unhappy having to read the storyline for each scenario prior to actually playing it
- How do the scenarios play into people's existing campaigns? I'm guessing that most groups would not want to set aside their campaign progress to play these separate ones, and if they did, it would dramatically change the power level they had when they returned to the normal campaign.
- I'd rather have quality over quantity. 28 mediocre scenarios sounds less exciting than 7 really cool ones.

So here is an idea to keep the awesome idea of creating scenarios during the campaign, but make it more reasonable for most players.

Aim to create a smaller number of scenarios. Each day, reveal the next part. Maybe one day it is a road event with several choices for us to make. The next day reveals the first room of the scenario, and a choice about how to proceed. The next day reveals the next area that people chose to move to, as part of that same scenario. After a few days that scenario is completed, and you start revealing parts of the next one.

People that are able to play in short bursts can choose to just leave things setup and play the new room each day. Others might choose to play the entire scenario at once after it has been revealed, allowing them to catch up to everyone else. The end result is 5-7 really detailed scenarios that people will remember, and that can be enjoyed outside of the Kickstarter as well. And you still get the benefit of something new to talk about each day, people being able to participate in how the storyline progresses each day, etc.
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John Dominguez
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I think this is a great idea. There's no way I can play 28 scenarios with work/kids etc. I would rather have say 9 or 10 quality scenarios and have Isaac keep his sanity.
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WD Yoga
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I agree.

Maybe release a scenario once in three days (two scenarios a week)? That will give us one or two days to vote and Isaac will have one or two days to make one scenario.
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michael
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bwarner34 wrote:
Having spent a bit of time thinking about Isaac's announcement of the 28-day real-time campaign for the reprint Kickstarter, I'm really unsure about how this would play out.

- For my group, Gloomhaven takes about 2 hours to play. We generally play once a week, twice at the most. There's no way we could complete an entire scenario every day for any length of time.
- Once you fall behind, it would be almost impossible to catch up without just skipping a bunch of stuff.
- People could obviously participate in the decisions without playing the scenarios, but knowing how spoiler-averse many of us are, I think people would be unhappy having to read the storyline for each scenario prior to actually playing it
- How do the scenarios play into people's existing campaigns? I'm guessing that most groups would not want to set aside their campaign progress to play these separate ones, and if they did, it would dramatically change the power level they had when they returned to the normal campaign.
- I'd rather have quality over quantity. 28 mediocre scenarios sounds less exciting than 7 really cool ones.

So here is an idea to keep the awesome idea of creating scenarios during the campaign, but make it more reasonable for most players.

Aim to create a smaller number of scenarios. Each day, reveal the next part. Maybe one day it is a road event with several choices for us to make. The next day reveals the first room of the scenario, and a choice about how to proceed. The next day reveals the next area that people chose to move to, as part of that same scenario. After a few days that scenario is completed, and you start revealing parts of the next one.

People that are able to play in short bursts can choose to just leave things setup and play the new room each day. Others might choose to play the entire scenario at once after it has been revealed, allowing them to catch up to everyone else. The end result is 5-7 really detailed scenarios that people will remember, and that can be enjoyed outside of the Kickstarter as well. And you still get the benefit of something new to talk about each day, people being able to participate in how the storyline progresses each day, etc.


I feel similarly. I like the amount of planned missions, but there's no way that my wife and I will be able to play every day.
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Felix Scholz
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yynderjohn wrote:
... and have Isaac keep his sanity.


I think its too late for that.

But on a serious note (well, kind of serious): I'm not really sure how much of this Isaac has already planned. If he really decides to have one scenario out every two days, I would certainly try to keep up but even if I manage to do that there probably wouldn't be anytime to go to kickstarter or BGG to talk about it. So Your proposition might be the better way. Especially considering that you would need sometime to allow for voting and so on. Let's hope Isaac sees this post and considers it when he goes into more detailed planning.

As for the party I guess I would create a new party for this "new" campaign. Except maybe if I have finished the main story line till then.
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Adam Tin
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I can because I’m unemployed or is it unemployable? ..
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adamtin wrote:
I can because I’m unemployed or is it unemployable? ..


Me too at the moment, but all of my friends work, so it still doesn't work for me, lol.
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Luke
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As someone who actually has the time to squeeze in one Gloomhaven scenario a day, I would still be relieved by a slower pace.

Mind you, I'm not going to say no to any of them. I'd also rather end up with 28 scenarios to play that I missed during the Kickstarter, but which I can go back to at any point.

I understand the spoiler problem though. I think in this case I would make an exception, and if I couldn't play a scenario on a specific day, I'd still look at the choices and probably vote.

28 new scenarios! For FREE!
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Jakob Kaine
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Color me dumb, but I don't know what the hell ya'll are talking about. What announcement and where can I find it?
 
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Brent Warner
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JakobBGG wrote:
Color me dumb, but I don't know what the hell ya'll are talking about. What announcement and where can I find it?


See the first post at https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1745872/new-information-abo...
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Andi Kasper
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So stupid question on that: As somebody who does not have the game can I just play the whole thing after delivery (assuming I avoid any spoilers throughout the KS)? I know I'll miss the oppertunity to actually vote for anything but I'll end up with 28 additional scenarios and the stuff from the basegame I'll get anyway, right?
 
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James
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For someone who is so busy how could Isaac possibly have enough time to make a whole, high quality scenario each day in addition to all the other responsibilities?
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Byron Campbell
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andlord wrote:
So stupid question on that: As somebody who does not have the game can I just play the whole thing after delivery (assuming I avoid any spoilers throughout the KS)? I know I'll miss the oppertunity to actually vote for anything but I'll end up with 28 additional scenarios and the stuff from the basegame I'll get anyway, right?


Impossible to say at this point, but I think you should be able to play them as side scenarios just fine. Also, you can play them digitally via Tabletop Simulator.
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Andi Kasper
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kittenhoarder wrote:
andlord wrote:
So stupid question on that: As somebody who does not have the game can I just play the whole thing after delivery (assuming I avoid any spoilers throughout the KS)? I know I'll miss the oppertunity to actually vote for anything but I'll end up with 28 additional scenarios and the stuff from the basegame I'll get anyway, right?


Impossible to say at this point, but I think you should be able to play them as side scenarios just fine. Also, you can play them digitally via Tabletop Simulator.


First I do not have TTS and second there is no way I can convince my wife to play with me via Steam and playing solo is not an option.
 
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Brent Warner
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Andi makes an interesting point. Who is the target audience for this campaign? To serve the same purpose as stretch goals, it should be aimed at the people who are pledging for the campaign, but I would guess that very few of the people pledging for the reprint will have a way to play the game (even if TTS is an option, most people won't use it). I think this will still server to generate a lot of hype, I think it just needs to be done with the expectation that many of the people participating won't be actually playing the scenarios during the campaign.
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Andi Kasper
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bwarner34 wrote:
Andi makes an interesting point. Who is the target audience for this campaign? To serve the same purpose as stretch goals, it should be aimed at the people who are pledging for the campaign, but I would guess that very few of the people pledging for the reprint will have a way to play the game (even if TTS is an option, most people won't use it). I think this will still server to generate a lot of hype, I think it just needs to be done with the expectation that many of the people participating won't be actually playing the scenarios during the campaign.


Exactly. I just hope Isaac is gonna sum up all the scenarios to a nice mini-adventure to enjoy after delivery for those who don't have the game like me.

Also if new players are gonna join the one scenario per day thing , he should at least make the first one like a tutorial or something like that. I think many have not played it jet and need a good starting point.
 
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David Latimore
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andlord wrote:
kittenhoarder wrote:
andlord wrote:
So stupid question on that: As somebody who does not have the game can I just play the whole thing after delivery (assuming I avoid any spoilers throughout the KS)? I know I'll miss the oppertunity to actually vote for anything but I'll end up with 28 additional scenarios and the stuff from the basegame I'll get anyway, right?


Impossible to say at this point, but I think you should be able to play them as side scenarios just fine. Also, you can play them digitally via Tabletop Simulator.


First I do not have TTS and second there is no way I can convince my wife to play with me via Steam and playing solo is not an option.


Sounds like there's no solution that works for you then.
 
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James Champagne
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Personally, I'd rather have a series of choose-your-own-adventure style short stories.
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Alex Sundown
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28 scenarios does seem a bit excessive, but the other idea I read earlier of playing one room per day isn't very practical either. I won't get anyone at my table to set up a whole scenario to play a single room.

I also think that one or two scenarios per week would be more manageable. Or you could go a completely different route of presenting a room with multiple doors or corridors (or objectives of interest in general) with the audience to vote on the path our heroes take each day to basically reveal and therefore build the scenario as we go. Maybe unlocking other things along the way.

Not everyone has to physically play the scenario by themselves, but instead think about it as a more elaborate comic strip telling the story of some adventurers with the community taking part at various key moments.
 
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one scenario per day is ...hmm.. ambitious, for several reasons:
- health safety, death from exhaustion doesn't help anyone, Isaac least of all
- there is the minor issue of running the campaign in general, which might cause a bit of overhead - distracting from scenario creation.
- time zones, even if you assume people can run a game every evening, the scenario won't hit everyone in time for the evening. Besides, if you run a poll after each scenario you have to give it a bit of time produces halfway usable results, statistically speaking.

Of course Isaac can't wait for everyone to participate and even a low percentage of the backers participating would result in a nice community driven campaign, even if the larger part just consumes it at a later date.
Personally, I would recommend a slower pace with fewer scenarios in total.
Pushing the tempo too much and excluding too many from participating beforehand might have less positive influence on the campaign mood than the idea deserves.


As a side note, this idea highlights a bit a general issue with additional content for Gloomhaven.
With additional content, third party or from Isaac himself, it's always a bit of pick and choose to check if it fits your requirements. However, the problem is that to judge efficiently if something fits your idea of quality, style, topic or just your need for fresh content you basically have to spoiler yourself the content of that material, which is true for almost all stuff.
Sure, some stuff you can get from descriptive meta info, but not all.
Anyhow, I', just rambling at this point... carry on <waves dismissively>

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David Latimore
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How about we stop worrying and complaining and trust Isaac has something awesome in store for us.
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Corey Mayo
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I think I could keep up with him if each installment is as short as Jamey's fan scenario: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1740544/pit-fan-scenario-ja...

But with a 17-month old at home, it would still be a stretch. Regardless, I am excited to see some variety added to my choices. "Kill All Enemies" will get old fast without the occasional gimmicky scenario to play.
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Drake Coker
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I'm in agreement: even if Isaac can keep up the pace, I can't. A scenario every 2-3 days is plenty!
 
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J
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bwarner34 wrote:


- For my group, Gloomhaven takes about 2 hours to play. We generally play once a week, twice at the most. There's no way we could complete an entire scenario every day for any length of time.
- Once you fall behind, it would be almost impossible to catch up without just skipping a bunch of stuff.
- People could obviously participate in the decisions without playing the scenarios, but knowing how spoiler-averse many of us are, I think people would be unhappy having to read the storyline for each scenario prior to actually playing it

I agree that majority of voters will probably not have actually played through all of the new scenarios before voting.

I'm trying to decide whether that should bother me. Assuming all of the options offered by Isaac are fun and interesting, and the scenarios will be balanced by him no matter what we choose, then I can't think of a reason why a bunch of people just voting for what sounds the most fun/interesting/appropriate without having played the scenarios should be a problem.

I'd probably ignore the polling and the daily revelations and just wait for the whole thing to be determined so it would all be new to me without spoilers. This would be more valuable to me than having input into the development.
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David Latimore
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Olvenskol wrote:
I'm in agreement: even if Isaac can keep up the pace, I can't. A scenario every 2-3 days is plenty!


"I made you this pie!"

"It's not my favorite! Thanks, but no thanks!"

or

"But I'm on a diet, why would you make me a pie?! I couldn't possibly eat all that!"


This is what you guys sound like.
 
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