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The Island of Doctor Necreaux: Second Edition» Forums » News

Subject: Live on Kickstarter rss

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Desi W.
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Our project is now live on Kickstarter. Please let us know if you have any questions, comments, or anything else. Jonathan Leistiko, the designer, will be on this forum too, to answer any questions.

Link to the Kickstarter:

https://goo.gl/Oc1V9o
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Moose Detective
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$40 pledge can't ship to US? Is this intentional or an error?
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Gergo Tothmihaly
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from the KS comments section:
Quote:
Howdy! I forgot to put a US shipping option on the $40 Adventurer level. I've fixed that now. Thank you so much for catching that early on!
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Gergo Tothmihaly
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Autoback! The first edition is a small in size but great in FUN game.
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Jonathan Leistiko
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stevelabny wrote:
$40 pledge can't ship to US? Is this intentional or an error?
Gergo beat me to it (Thanks, Gergo!).

I remembered to put US backing for all other shippable tiers, but not that one. Who's got two thumbs and is occasionally a doofus?

This guy!

(I blame Necreaux. Why he'd try to foil the release of his own game is a mystery to me, but if he were predictable, he wouldn't be a *mad* evil genius. He'd just be an evil genius.)
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Desi W.
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invisiblejon wrote:

(I blame Necreaux. Why he'd try to foil the release of his own game is a mystery to me, but if he were predictable, he wouldn't be a *mad* evil genius. He'd just be an evil genius.)


The Diabolical Doctor Necreaux wrote:

It was a trap. You were going too fast and you fell right into it. Fools!


What!? How did he get our Kickstarter password info?
 
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Christophe Jannin
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backer n° 37
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Jonathan Leistiko
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Woo-hoo! Thank you.
 
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Jonathan Leistiko
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lynnedesiree wrote:
invisiblejon wrote:
(I blame Necreaux. Why he'd try to foil the release of his own game is a mystery to me, but if he were predictable, he wouldn't be a *mad* evil genius. He'd just be an evil genius.)


The Diabolical Doctor Necreaux wrote:
It was a trap. You were going too fast and you fell right into it. Fools!

What!? How did he get our Kickstarter password info?
Son of a gun!

Well, he does love his traps...
 
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Gergo Tothmihaly
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Just watched Rahdo's runthrough. I love the first edition, the two words that describe it for me the best are: brutal and FUN.

I really like all the changes the second edition brings. None of them are huge but they all seem to make the game experience better. The new dice system looks great.
The only thing I'm not sure about is the XP, but only because I like that the game can be brutally hard from time to time. So, I will probably play it without the XP, at least every now and then, but I like that this gives us the option to scale the difficulty if we want to.
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Jonathan Leistiko
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tmgergo wrote:
Just watched Rahdo's runthrough. I love the first edition, the two words that describe it for me the best are: brutal and FUN.
The second edition keeps the fun, but dials back the "brutal." More accurately: The second edition dials it back for starting players, but don't make the mistake of thinking it's been totally de-clawed. It's easy to play Necreaux in "Classic mode" (or as one Facebook poster said: "Hard as ****."), and there are variants to make it harder still.

tmgergo wrote:
I really like all the changes the second edition brings. None of them are huge but they all seem to make the game experience better. The new dice system looks great.
Virtually all of the changes are in response to the spot-on feedback from BGG posters/fans. Changing to a 2d6 system was such the right choice. I'm honestly a little astonished that I didn't realize it was the correct thing to do when I first designed the game.

I also really like the Secret Cache cards. They're a nice way to dial back how hard it kicks you.

tmgergo wrote:
The only thing I'm not sure about is the XP, but only because I like that the game can be brutally hard from time to time. So, I will probably play it without the XP, at least every now and then, but I like that this gives us the option to scale the difficulty if we want to.
That's exactly what the XP is there for - to make the game a little easier for players. It has the nice effect of (functionally) eliminating a problem with the first edition that's super-unpopular these days: Player elimination. In a first edition game of Necreaux, it's very possible for a player's agent to be killed before the true end of the game, and then they're stuck twiddling their thumbs until the game ends. With XP, there's really no excuse to let an agent die (unless your team suddenly takes a catastrophic amount of damage). It also has the nice effect of letting players see and play with more skill cards in the course of one game.

The Diabolical Doctor Necreaux wrote:
Hah! The fools! They don't suspect a thing!
What? What do you mean?

The Diabolical Doctor Necreaux wrote:
Be silent, worm! Necreaux explains himself to no-one!
...Well, then... We'll just have to let that rest on its own merits...

Anyways... Before we were interrupted... It's easy to play without XP - simply ignore every "XP gain" trigger. In fact, if you "play for points," you get a 10-point bonus if you never spend XP.

Oh, one more thing: Introducing XP gives the game another "currency" for the players to spend. Now we can have items or skills that spend XP as a good effect, or monsters/traps that get easier based on how much XP you have (or spend on them). Fun stuff.

Oh! One last thing: We introduced XP because it's a mechanic from the sequel. Desirée said, "Why keep it in the sequel if it's forward-compatible?" So we bundled it in.
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Jeff Wood
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I admit I was tempted to autoback, love the game...but the card artwork (or at least the colors) and the pawns are giving me pause.

I'm have to rewrap my mind that is used to the sci-fi retro art without the color, or even no art for the traps. Getting to 2d6 is the goal, I must tell myself.
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Jonathan Leistiko
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Cinnibar wrote:
I admit I was tempted to autoback, love the game...but the card artwork (or at least the colors) and the pawns are giving me pause. I'm have to rewrap my mind that is used to the sci-fi retro art without the color, or even no art for the traps.
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts on new Necreaux. I sincerely appreciate it!

On the art...
I understand your point of view. There's the saying, "You can't please everyone all the time." That's valid here too, right? Some people love the new art, and some people prefer the old art. I think Albert Hernandez at One-Player Podcast framed it well when he said there'll be some people who miss the old art, but the new art makes it accessible to a wider range of new players.

Being candid: The second edition is the big opportunity to fix everything that I felt wasn't quite right in the first edition (Note: I am, and will always be, grateful to AEG for publishing the first edition. I'm not "ragging on" them.). I really wanted every card in the new edition to have its own unique art (Except for multiple instances of the same card, like the Sliding Wall Trap.). Without getting into all the details of commissioning and sourcing art... To make it all work, we had to work around things we couldn't control and make some compromises. Several times we couldn't get the art we wanted and had to turn to other sources. For example – I really wanted the artist that did the Escape Shuttle and Psychic Amplifier to do all of the art, but he just wasn't available. In the end, I'm very happy with the art we have.

Interesting trivia point: We're using color as a visual cue so players can recognize card types from a distance. Items are in reds and oranges, traps are in blues and purples, and so on... We gave our artists color guidelines for each card type and they did a pretty good job of abiding by them.

I understand and respect your opinions on the art. Given time, you might adjust to the new art? (FWIW: I've enjoyed seeing new interpretations of prior concepts. However, as the creator, it's a nice ego boost to see someone else translate your ideas. )

On the pawns:
I'd really like your feedback on the pawns. I like the "red donut" pawn for the countdown tracker, but I'm not sold on the speed and draw pawns. I was considering a little standee with the front-of-box heroes on it as the Speed marker, and a miniature version of a card as the draw token. I'd really like to know what your thoughts are.

Cinnibar wrote:
Getting to 2d6 is the goal, I must tell myself.
That's a really neat phrase - It's a phrase you really wouldn't hear in "normal" conversation, is it?

Some may say I'm "stupid" to share this idea, but: Using the rules and cards from the no-art print-and-play in the KS campaign as a guide, you can play first edition Necreaux with 2d6. It requires a bit of "on the fly" flexing, but it's not taxing. The Monsters are likely the hardest to translate, but if you just add 5 to each CV, you'll come pretty close (They'll average a little on the hard side, but that helps maintain the first edition feel. ). You won't have the 2nd edition card and skill alterations, but you'll get the nice "odds smoothing" that 2d6 yields.

So... Yeah. If the art rubs you the wrong way but you crave that tasty, tasty conflict resolution mechanic overhaul, you can yoink the mechanics from the print and play and play with your first edition cards. (In fact: Most of the new rules work ok with the old cards. You have to fudge the cards a bit, but it works. Mostly.)

The Diabolical Doctor Necreaux wrote:
You fool! You're giving your secrets away! With those, he has no incentive to back the second edition! How dare you thwart my return! I WILL DESTROY YOU!!!!
Woah! (Where the heck did he come from?)

Look, Doctor... If he's not happy with the new edition but I can help increase his enjoyment of the old thing, I'm going to do that. It's not like the new rules are hidden. I'm not here to twist arms (or hold the world hostage) to encourage backers. I'm here to share and be helpful.

...

Huh. He's gone. That was weird...

Anyways. I hope this information is helpful. If you have any questions, please let me know. I'd really like to hear your thoughts on the pawns.
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invisiblejon wrote:

On the pawns:
I'd really like your feedback on the pawns. I like the "red donut" pawn for the countdown tracker, but I'm not sold on the speed and draw pawns. I was considering a little standee with the front-of-box heroes on it as the Speed marker, and a miniature version of a card as the draw token. I'd really like to know what your thoughts are.


Literally anything would be better than oldtimey game pawns.
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Jonathan Leistiko
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stevelabny wrote:
invisiblejon wrote:

On the pawns:
I'd really like your feedback on the pawns. I like the "red donut" pawn for the countdown tracker, but I'm not sold on the speed and draw pawns. I was considering a little standee with the front-of-box heroes on it as the Speed marker, and a miniature version of a card as the draw token. I'd really like to know what your thoughts are.


Literally anything would be better than oldtimey game pawns.
Ah! We're having a visual communication disconnect. Those are prototype placeholders. The real pawns will look nothing like that!

At the very least, they'll be die-cut pieces. I'm considering big color-coded arrows (yellow for speed and blue for draw) that you slide to point at the current value, but I keep toying with little stand-ups of the heroes from the cover and a miniature card (or deck of cards).
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invisiblejon wrote:


At the very least, they'll be die-cut pieces. I'm considering big color-coded arrows (yellow for speed and blue for draw) that you slide to point at the current value, but I keep toying with little stand-ups of the heroes from the cover and a miniature card (or deck of cards).


I actually went back to the KS when I was typing my comment and realized that, the little wooden arrows aren't bad. Whether or not standees would be better is probably a personal thing. Gloomhaven uses standees for monsters and that's turnig out OK.
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stevelabny wrote:
Literally anything would be better than oldtimey game pawns.
Normally I would say the same. But in this case they actually fit into the retro-pulp feel of the game for me. So, I would be totally OK if those seen in Rahdo's video were the final pieces.
But with all this being said I'm really curious what Jon comes up with. The arrows shown on the KS page look good too; simple, functional.
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tmgergo wrote:
stevelabny wrote:
Literally anything would be better than oldtimey game pawns.
Normally I would say the same. But in this case they actually fit into the retro-pulp feel of the game for me. So, I would be totally OK if those seen in Rahdo's video were the final pieces.
But with all this being said I'm really curious what Jon comes up with. The arrows shown on the KS page look good too; simple, functional.


Just tonight, I suggested that we use cubes (or maybe pawns that fit) with cut-outs in the game board to help hold them in place as you move them. Jonathan gets final say as the designer, but as collaborator and co-developer, I have some sway. Also, since we're on Kickstarter, we're listening to what you guys say. (Which is why I said - maybe pawns that fit - because if enough of you like the retro feel, well, maybe this is backer-poll-material.)
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lynnedesiree wrote:
Just tonight, I suggested that we use cubes (or maybe pawns that fit) with cut-outs in the game board to help hold them in place as you move them.


I like this idea, personally, as I noticed that Rahdo's markers were always a little ambiguous as to where they were while I was watching. Of course, the arrows would help with that, too. Having a board with cut outs for the markers to fit in may add a decent amount to the cost of production, though.
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jbethany wrote:
Having a board with cut outs for the markers to fit in may add a decent amount to the cost of production, though.
If you're doing it as a die-cut punch board, it costs less than you'd think. If the bits that you punch out happen to double as (say) hit tokens, or XP tokens, then that's all the better.

My point is: That idea's an interesting option...
 
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invisiblejon wrote:
jbethany wrote:
Having a board with cut outs for the markers to fit in may add a decent amount to the cost of production, though.
If you're doing it as a die-cut punch board, it costs less than you'd think. If the bits that you punch out happen to double as (say) hit tokens, or XP tokens, then that's all the better.

My point is: That idea's an interesting option...


Oh I see. I was thinking something more along the lines of the player boards in Scythe with indentations to hold the pieces in place.
 
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jbethany wrote:
invisiblejon wrote:
jbethany wrote:
Having a board with cut outs for the markers to fit in may add a decent amount to the cost of production, though.
If you're doing it as a die-cut punch board, it costs less than you'd think. If the bits that you punch out happen to double as (say) hit tokens, or XP tokens, then that's all the better.

My point is: That idea's an interesting option...


Oh I see. I was thinking something more along the lines of the player boards in Scythe with indentations to hold the pieces in place.
Fir 'nuff. The thing I dislike about those is that they're prone to warping and layer separation. If it's one piece with holes, it's more "stable."

Either way, we're on similar tracks.

JAL
 
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jbethany wrote:
invisiblejon wrote:
jbethany wrote:
Having a board with cut outs for the markers to fit in may add a decent amount to the cost of production, though.
If you're doing it as a die-cut punch board, it costs less than you'd think. If the bits that you punch out happen to double as (say) hit tokens, or XP tokens, then that's all the better.

My point is: That idea's an interesting option...


Oh I see. I was thinking something more along the lines of the player boards in Scythe with indentations to hold the pieces in place.


Shape a board with indents along the outside, either oval or circular with 'this is the bomb about to destroy the island' art inside. I'm inspired by the ones in the player board of Seasons. It doesn't need a sharp indent that could break off later, just shallow enough to have a couple pawns moving around the outside edge. I'm hoping such a one 'punch' item is cheaper, also. One doesn't even need shaped cardboard if a couple cards can form the 'track' with appropriate design.
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Just saw this thread and it took me all of 12 seconds to back the game.

Good luck!
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Desi W.
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Yay! We're funded!
 
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