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Subject: Final judgement on torpdeo-mine interaction rss

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Nathan West
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I've seen a lot of different questions in different threads about this, so I wanted to have a single, conclusive thread where all questions about mine-torpedo interactions can be answered.

For reference, the rules as written state:

Quote:
A torpedo impact has the same outcome as a triggered mine (see Dropping a Mine). <snip>

If a torpedo impacts in a space with a mine, the mine is destroyed; the Captain erases that mine from his sheet.


1. Are mines destroyed if they are caught *anywhere* in the blast radius, or only on a direct hit?
2. Do mines destroy other mines, or do only torpedos destroy mines?
3. Are mines of all factions (including Archer mines) destroyed?
4. Do destroyed mines explode, dealing damage like an ordinary mine?
5. If 1 and 4 are both true, do mines chain together, if they are adjacent?
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Rich Charters
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Quote:
A torpedo impact has the same outcome as a triggered mine (see Dropping a Mine). <snip>

If a torpedo impacts in a space with a mine, the mine is destroyed; the Captain erases that mine from his sheet.


1. Are mines destroyed if they are caught *anywhere* in the blast radius, or only on a direct hit?
I would say 'anywhere' in the radius. The rule says "impacts", and a torpedo impacts more spaces than the one it lands on.

2. Do mines destroy other mines, or do only torpedos destroy mines?
I would think a mine explosion would trigger other mines.

3. Are mines of all factions (including Archer mines) destroyed?
I don't know what this means. But I am not familiar with any explosion that picks and chooses what it impacts, so I would say 'yes'

4. Do destroyed mines explode, dealing damage like an ordinary mine?
Yes. I think that is the point

5. If 1 and 4 are both true, do mines chain together, if they are adjacent?
I think absolutely. Explosions should trigger other explosions.
 
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Jay M
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If that is the case, you could deal a "sudden death" by torpedoing an enemy sub while it is adjacent to a mine or mines.
 
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David desJardins
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Lucretiel wrote:
4. Do destroyed mines explode, dealing damage like an ordinary mine?


I definitely think no to this one. It just says to erase the mine from the sheet.
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Rich Charters
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Lucretiel wrote:
4. Do destroyed mines explode, dealing damage like an ordinary mine?

I definitely think no to this one. It just says to erase the mine from the sheet.
I see why you say that, but why would you erase it if it didn't explode? And if it exploded, why wouldn't it deal damage?

To answer my own question: I guess the point would be that an explosion ruins the detonator (without blowing up the mine), so it is completely disabled.

Personally I like the idea of chain reactions. So that there are potentially fatal consequences to sailing through dangerous waters.
 
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Quantum Jack
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Example:

Mine in A2
Sub in A1
Torpedo aimed at B1

Torpedo explodes, dealing 1 damage to sub and 1 to mine.
Mine detonates, dealing 1 damage to sub.

or is the detonated mine supposed to just "extend" the area of the explosion? dealing 1 damage to the whole area?

btw, my vote is for a mine hit in the blast of a torpedo or other mine is just destroyed without also detonating. Considering this is a future setting, i'm thinking mines are more sophisticated than a ball of explosives in a spikey ball. Maybe even nuclear mines. A hit would disable without triggering.

 
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Michael Haszprunar
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In my opinion the mine does not explode. The rules say that the mine is destroyed, which is not the same as "the mine triggers and explodes".

RL example: you can shoot (and therefore destroy) an nuclear bomb but this does not trigger the explosion.

This should also solve the follow-up questions

I am not sure on the impact radius, but it would make sense that the torpedo blast radius is to be considered, not just the space it lands on.
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Fadi Ramadan
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In my group , torpedo and mines can trigger the other mines to explode.
But damage doesn't stack and exploded mines do not trigger direct hit.

So in other words. You might shoot a torpedo at A6 , and then announce that mine on A7 exploded due to torpedo,
Enemy Captain then announces mine at B6 exploded.
And then says we are hit 1 Damage.

So even if enemy sub was in B7 the damage doesn't stack .

This way firing into a mine field is both a good and a bad thing.

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Josh G
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PurpleHyena wrote:
In my group , torpedo and mines can trigger the other mines to explode.
But damage doesn't stack and exploded mines do not trigger direct hit.

So in other words. You might shoot a torpedo at A6 , and then announce that mine on A7 exploded due to torpedo,
Enemy Captain then announces mine at B6 exploded.
And then says we are hit 1 Damage.

So even if enemy sub was in B7 the damage doesn't stack .

This way firing into a mine field is both a good and a bad thing.



This seems like a fair way to play, but based on this thread it certainly feels like a lot of people are simply house-ruling this one. I haven't played yet, but having read through the rules, this was the first thing that stuck out to me.

It depends how much you want to read into the theme: are futuristic bombs so advanced that they don't explode without being triggered using their own programmed controls? Or is an explosive an explosive and one trigger the same as another?

I would argue that "realistically" if a mine is caught in a blast, it explodes as normal, but that for gaming purposes, the damage would not stack. 1 damage is 1 damage, even if your sub gets impacted by two different explosions. The only caveat I would add is if the targeted sub was on top of a mine that got caught in the blast radius of a torpedo, in which case you'd take 2 damage instead of 1 since it's a direct hit.

But, like I said I haven't played before so I don't know. Best to discuss it with your group before playing and house-rule it in advance based on what makes the most sense to your consensus.
 
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Timur Tabi
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IMHO, I think a cascading mine explosion is too complicated for this game, and I'd be surprised if the designer intended it as such.

Thematically, it makes sense that a mine only causes damage if it's exploded by remote control. There are many explosives like that -- generally inert until detonated by a specific catalyst. It's a safety feature.

So a torpedo exploding near a mine simply destroys it. The mine does not explode, and it does not cause damage. This is how I read the instructions.
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Cluny
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1. Are mines destroyed if they are caught *anywhere* in the blast radius, or only on a direct hit?

a) Per rulebook p.6:
Quote:
The Captain announces the point of impact (for example, “TORPEDO LAUNCHED,IMPACT IN C6”) [emphasis added]


b) Per rulebook p.6:
Quote:
If a torpedo impacts in a space [emphasis added] with a mine, the mine is destroyed; the Captain erases that mine from his sheet.


Since the rules state that the destruction of a mine follows an impact in the space of the mine, and defines an impact in the manner indicated, then no: mines are only destroyed on a direct hit.

2. Do mines destroy other mines, or do only torpedos destroy mines?

Per rulebook p.6:

Quote:
A torpedo impact has the same outcome as a triggered mine [emphasis added]


Therefore since a torpedo impact destroys a mine, do does a triggered mine, i.e. if the two mines are in the same space, then the mine will be destroyed.

3. Are mines of all factions (including Archer mines) destroyed?

a) Per rulebook p.6:
Quote:
If a torpedo impacts in a space with a mine [emphasis added], the mine is destroyed;

b) Per a claim of having contacted the designers by BGG-user FabienC: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/23472336#23472336:
[q]Official answer : the torpedo will destroy an Archer mine just like any other mine.


Since the rules state "with a mine", not "with an enemy mine", then yes, mines of all factions are destroyed (though see 1. above to realise that for this to be relevant would mean a Captain had for some reason chosen to drop two of his own mines on the same space [as a dupe to make an enemy Captain think that space was now safe?] or one of his own mines on top of an Archer mine.

4. Do destroyed mines explode, dealing damage like an ordinary mine?
5. If 1 and 4 are both true, do mines chain together, if they are adjacent?


Per rulebook p.6:

Quote:
If a torpedo impacts in a space with a mine, the mine is destroyed; the Captain erases that mine from his sheet. [emphasis added]


The consequences of destroying a mine are that it is erased. No suggestion is made in the rules that this involves it being triggered. Therefore, no, destroyed mines do not explode.
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