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Subject: Who are the bad guys? rss

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weesh ful
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The rules describe the government as "powerful" and "malignant", but honestly I'm having trouble sympathising with the members of the resistance.

If the only people you hang out with are those that hate the government, you are in an echo chamber.

What if the government is actively trying to make the best of a bad situation, and overthrowing them will make things worse?

Also, we don't really hear about what these missions are. Are we terrorists?

It was really distressing that my friends just took for granted that the government was the bad guys, and that they needed to be overthrown.

I feel that we should be talking about this before doing anything rash.
Maybe the government needs to go, but I'm not convinced yet.
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Des Lee
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That sounds a bit like something that a spy would say....
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B C Z
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He who wins the game writes the history.
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Craig Somerton
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Are you perhaps applying a little too much personal ideology to the game?

Try applying the Start Wars theme to the concept - a valiant group of rebels fighting against an evil empire.

Or a Continuum theme, where the corporations now run the world and are opposed by a group intent on reestablishing society to a more democratic/socialist model.
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weesh ful
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anomander64 wrote:
Are you perhaps applying a little too much personal ideology to the game?


Absolutely!
That is a thing that I do.

Similarly, it was really disappointing to me that Twilight Struggle had no mechanism for detente. One side had to win. Mechanically, it makes sense to have a winner. But philosophically, both countries could have different goals that could both be met independently.
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John
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anomander64 wrote:
Try applying the Star Wars theme

It doesn't take too much imagination:
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John
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weesh wrote:
honestly I'm having trouble sympathising with the members of the resistance.

Yeah, they're a right grumpy bunch. I don't think I want them to win.


But we can't have have the spies winning either:


Maybe I should play the rouge module so they can all lose.
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weesh ful
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zabdiel wrote:
Maybe I should play the rouge module so they can all lose.


The most fun I've ever had in fluxx was in zombie flux where everyone loses on a zombie victory. I pushed so hard for it, and it was delicious to have the entire table against you!

Turned a pretty luck-based game into something that at least caused a little fear!
 
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Bitchy Little Boy
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... I am disgusted and disappointed, but I still want to believe people can be honest and sensible.
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What I like about this game is that it is so ambivalent. Both the resistance fighters and the spies can claim they fight the good fight. As long as it is not clear whether the "resistance" attacks governmental or civilian targets (or simply uses toy water guns to harass dishonest politicians) it is anyone's guess who are the good guys.
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Don Eskridge
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When I first created the game, the bad guys weren't the Empire but the Government. It changed because both my parents had careers teaching in public schools, and my dad said to me 'I work for the government. So does that make me the bad guy?' That struck a chord, so I changed it to the larger idea of an evil empire. Yes it's true that an empire is still a government, but it's a bit easier to associate dominating/menacing tones to it.
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B C Z
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Don E wrote:
When I first created the game, the bad guys weren't the Empire but the Government. It changed because both my parents had careers teaching in public schools, and my dad said to me 'I work for the government. So does that make me the bad guy?' That struck a chord, so I changed it to the larger idea of an evil empire. Yes it's true that an empire is still a government, but it's a bit easier to associate dominating/menacing tones to it.


Likewise, every time I've ever played, GMed (forum based) or explained the game, I am very clear that neither side is actually "evil", just that they disagree. The Empire is the informed minority, the Rebels are the uninformed majority.

I like that it's vague. Grey areas are good.
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Randall Monk
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anomander64 wrote:
Are you perhaps applying a little too much personal ideology to the game?

Try applying the Start Wars theme to the concept - a valiant group of rebels fighting against an evil empire.

Or a Continuum theme, where the corporations now run the world and are opposed by a group intent on reestablishing society to a more democratic/socialist model.


Have you seen Continuum? The rebels are horrible and vicious. The corporations are slightly less horrible.
 
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Trueflight Silverwing
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Monkatron wrote:
anomander64 wrote:
Are you perhaps applying a little too much personal ideology to the game?

Try applying the Start Wars theme to the concept - a valiant group of rebels fighting against an evil empire.

Or a Continuum theme, where the corporations now run the world and are opposed by a group intent on reestablishing society to a more democratic/socialist model.


Have you seen Continuum? The rebels are horrible and vicious. The corporations are slightly less horrible.


I've seen similar comparisons for Star Wars as well. After Rogue One, there are lots of people who view the rebels as the bad guys now.
 
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Craig Somerton
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Monkatron wrote:
Have you seen Continuum? The rebels are horrible and vicious. The corporations are slightly less horrible.


Yes. Loved the show.

That side of the story was not sufficient explored to reveal the motivations of the characters, unfortunately.

Skirting the thread being directed to RSP...

I suppose it does depend on your point of view and the strength of your ideological beliefs. Not to condone violence in any way, but sometimes it may be a last desperate resort when all other options have been denied to you.
 
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weesh ful
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Don E wrote:
When I first created the game, the bad guys weren't the Empire but the Government. It changed because both my parents had careers teaching in public schools, and my dad said to me 'I work for the government. So does that make me the bad guy?' That struck a chord, so I changed it to the larger idea of an evil empire. Yes it's true that an empire is still a government, but it's a bit easier to associate dominating/menacing tones to it.


Ok, it's a little wild to me that I can make a silly post about a game and the designer might respond to me. This site is pretty cool.

It is interesting that your response to the morality issue was to clarify that the government was evil, rather than let it continue to be a bit grey.

When I play as the resistance, I had no trouble imagining an evil government to take down. But when I was a spy, I really dislike being bad. That is why I created a narrative of the resistance being a terrorist group to foil that I could use when I was a spy.

The game was just a little bit too serious for me to enjoy being bad.
Whereas, for cartoony games, being the bad guy isn't about mass subjugation, but something much more light hearted.



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Clyde W
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Let's be honest, if the government was providing subsides for health care and funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, wouldn't you rebel too?
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