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Subject: Scenario 26 Difficulty [Spoilers] rss

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David Wallace
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SCENARIO 26
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The final room in the scenario is tuned WAY too hard for 2 players. I don't think it's impossible, but the way in which the Black Imps spawn makes it close to impossible to get past them in a 2 person party, especially if lower in levels. Two Black Imps spawning every turn after you open the door to the big room means that before you really have a chance to do much to stop it 4-6 Black Imps will have spawned and 1 or 2 more every single turn until the end. This creates a wall that is VERY tough to get through if you get even mildly behind. This is exacerbated by the fact that the Living Corpse can immobilize you and push you into stun traps if something goes wrong or the Night Demon + Elite Black Imp can simply stop you for a turn or 2 by blocking the doorway.

I think our strategy next time is to use our once a game movement cards to race to the back of the room as quickly as we can and simply try not to die. However, certain ability cards (the 2 target one specifically) by the Black Imps will likely kill one or 2 of us with 6-8 Imps firing.

Did anyone else have severe trouble with this scenario? It's easily the hardest we have seen in the first twenty or so we have done.
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Paul Ferguson
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Agree. Some mission just can't be done with 2. Just having less enemy's for less players isn't enough to make it work at 2, for a lot of missions.
 
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Matt Ziemer
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Spoilers below. I'm an idiot and don't know how to use spoiler hiding boxes.

First, I agree that this was the hardest scenario for us so far, though 58 was a close second. I don't think it is impossible with two characters. We did it with 3 but one char never made it into the last 2 rooms so really we finished room 4 on 3 char mode with only 2. Note I know room 3 and 4 are one room but ima refer to them as 3 and 4 to be more specific.

Now as I said this is a very tough scenario but clearly do-able as I managed a success first try, playing with myself (33 yr old wanna be)/tinkerer, my 8 year old/ Scoundrel, and my 6 year old/ Brute. Plus, see above about my lvl of intelligence, I accidentally put us on hard mode at scenario lvl 3 instead of 2 where we should have been. My much more attractive and smart wife pointed it out after.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Let me break it down. We basically ended up opening the door to rooms 3 and 4 at the worst possible time. My Tink and the 6 yr old's brute got jammed in the doorway to room 2 wasting piles of turns trying to kill night demons (brute drew 4 misses before we could down the elite, those wonderful curses) while my 8 year old bravely jumped over them and went to solo the 2 oozes before they could start multiplying. He wasn't going to let that happen again.

Anyway before we could get done with the demons, he's dropped the oozes and decides to open the door to rooms 3 and 4. I started reading the flavour text and rules and when I realized what was happening I looked at the 8 yr old and said "I don't think we can beat this". He proceeded to throw himself across the bed and my 6 year old ran out so I had a few minutes to think about it. I told my 8 yr old to kill the zombie in room 3 and just remember we didn't need to kill monsters to win, just cleanse wells. He used the rest of his movement to get to the zombie and kill it on one hit. Good ol' scoundrel. I abandoned the brute and headed for the back rooms.

Then as I suspected the imps made a wall blocking entry to room 4 and the wells. With jump boots my 8 yr old gets to a well and pops invisibility cloak. I'm still several turns away but I'm hoping his sacrifice helps. Next turn, one well down and instead of dying there he makes a hole and runs back out to room 3. He survives while I arrive and we both clear a hole in the imps and run back into room 4.

My 6 yr old and his brute cleared the demons but had the loot a treasure BG so decided we were on our own.

I put my tinkerer next to the second well and the 8 yr old heroically stood in the middle to soak up all the fire and get exhausted. Next turn, 2 wells down, I net shot the demons to immobilize them away from me and stood next to the last well. Then I lost I think it was 6 cards to stay alive and next turn.... We win. 10 Black Imps and 2 night demons filling up the room didnt matter, just needed to cleanse the wells. Jump boots made a big difference. I feel like there is no gear more important than boots. Gotta have good boots. Better Utility is stronger than better stats I think in this game. I think it helps having spawned mini gaming geniuses as well to carry me through.


Anyways, that's how we beat it. Maybe that helps.
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Moose Detective
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I just did this one with a level 2 Mindthief and a level 3 triplearrow. I have some question about Imp placement and the win condition. I'm pretty sure we won but would like an opinion.

We started the round in the two hexes outside the room.TripleArrow opened door, walked next to Corpse and one-shotted the Gold Imp with a ranged attack. Night Demon moved into Imps old spot, Mindthief used boots to move5 get adjacent to demon and poison it (but whiffed on damage). Corpse hits TripleArrow. Imps are summoned. We summoned 2 imps.

1> For 2P, there's only TWO water hexes and therefore only 2 imps are summoned. Right?

Next round, Mindthief Immobilized demon and walked three more spaces. Triple Arrow did a move2/attack/move2. Night Demon is immobilized and can't reach target. Corpse will never have a target again so let's just ignore him. Two imps poison Mindthief for 0 damage. Two more imps are summoned. Summon rules say adjacent to summoner (water hex in this scenario) and closest to enemies.

Let's say the water pump is surrounded by 5 empty hexes. T = trap. C = Character. W = Water pump 1-5 = empty hexes aroun water pump.

T C
1 2
W 3
5 4

We originally spawned the Imp in 2 because it was closest. (And the mirror image on the other pump. The second spawing - 1 and 3 are both the same distance from the character. Does it matter that there is a monster at 2 already? We chose to spawn in 1...but 3 would have made things much more difficult... possibly impossible without a JUMP power.

2> With a Monster at 2, would the next monster spawn at 1,3, or player's choice between them?

Third round, because we spawned at 1, we still had empty spots next to the pipes at 3. Mindthief goes to one side and uses Invisible. The TripleArrow goes to the other side. The Night Demon doesn't have a target. The 4 imps all target the TripleArrow for poison and some damage. Triple Arrow short rests to pick up cards. Two more imps spawn.

Fourth round, the TripleArrow goes at Init 23 and forgoes his actions to cleanse his pipe. the NightDemon comes and attacks, causing him to lose a card. The SIX imps all attack and with only one more card to toss, the TripleArrow drops. The Mindthief is still invisible until the end of his turn. At 99, the Mindthief long rests, which cleanses the pipe. Invisibility ends, but so does the round. We win.

3> We win, right? As long as the TripleArrow cleanses his side before he drops, the invisibilty + long rest means someone will survive the round to end the scenario.



 
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Matt Ziemer
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Looks good to me.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I was thinking about it more and it seems to me that if played carefully, one char with jump boots and inv can beat this level on 2 player almost broken easy. Pop boots and jump in next to well and pop invisibility cloak. Go late next round to get max invis and walk to next well. Should be open and monsters will move out of room to focus visible chars. Go early next round, win. Prob won't even take a hit in there.

 
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Paul Johnson
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This was far and away the hardest scenario I've seen so far. We failed our first try with 4 players as the room immediately filled up with 10 imps and we could not possibly kill them fast enough to get into the room. Invisibility is definitely key here I think.

As for spawning, the map layout has the water pumps listed as difficult terrain -- so by that logic you can stand on the actual tile. Therefore, to me, that implies that when a water pump spawns an imp it spawns on the tile. If there's something already on the tile then per the spawning rules it must spawn on an adjacent empty hex of the player's choice.
 
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Mike K
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Just did this mission yesterday. We are a party of three and it was certainly frustrating in parts. We ran a three person party. The three classes we used were the c'thulu/mindlflayer ( me ) the sun and the darkness. The early parts of the mission were fine, nothing too horrible anyway. That last room though, that was a *lot* of imps. We did it by having me jump in behind with a large jump and used an item to become invisible. Then I ran across the room to get the other far pump from the door while we had our sun get in and get the close one. We didn't even bother trying to kill the imps as it wasn't worth it. There are harder missions, but this was rather tricky at the end.
 
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Price Johnson
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Completed first attempt with a 2p party. Level 3 Brute and level 2 Mindthief. It was also the Mindthief's first game.

Upon opening the final door, and reading the special rules the objective became clear. Purify the water. As brute I charged to the first tank (loss x6 movement card + top move/attack card). Next round popped the x3 no damage buff and moves towards 2nd tank.

The black imps are many, but they are very weak. Move quickly and discard cards if you have to as well to avoid damage. You don't need to kill all the things this time.
 
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Paul Johnson
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So we redid this last night (with 4 players) and the Mindthief actually solo'd the final room. As in, he opened the door and needed no help in cleaning up all of the pipes. Once we got him to the door what the rest of the team did literally did not matter -- it was quite impressive, to be honest. He was a quite high level Mindthief, though (7) and had some key equipment -- a Cloak of Invisibility and a jump enhancement on his Scurry card (Move 3 Attack 1 on top). I'll spoiler the strat in case people want to figure it out for themselves:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Turn 1: He began the turn he opened the door right next to the door with two cards in discard. He did a huge move, I think losing a card, a good chunk of it jumping, to get to the nearest pipe, then used his Cloak of Invisibility to go invisible.

Turn 2: He played two cards at a very slow initiative and forfeited his turn, cleaning up the first pipe. Because he went after the monsters they all ignored him as he was still invisible when they acted.

Turn 3: He played his enhanced Scurry for its Move 3 jump on top and a card that gives him invisibility on bottom. He moved over to the second pump and went invisible again. He acted before the monsters, so was invisible when they acted.

Turn 4: Long rest, losing one of the cards he dumped in Turn 2. Invisibility ended at the end of this round, but the second pipe was clean.

Turn 5: Scurry + Invisibility bottom over to the third pipe, then use Minor Stamina potion to get both back to his hand.

Turn 6: Play two junk cards at a very slow initiative, forfeiting his turn to clean pipe three.

Turn 7: Scurry + Invisibility bottom over to the fourth pipe.

Turn 8: Long rest, clean the fourth pipe, win the scenario.
It is pretty amusing how the best character for a sewer cleanup mission is a rat. He was 'in his element', so to speak.

Invisibility is definitely the key to this mission. I highly recommend abusing it whenever possible.
 
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Dante
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Katy
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I just finished this scenario on my second try and found myself to this thread to see what others had to say about it. It sounds like a couple people played it wrong by not "foregoing" their actions. This is what made this scenario hard. Luckily invisibility saved the day. I actually just gave all 3 of my characters their best movement cards and just rushed to the back room without attacking anything unless it was right next to me. 2 out of my 3 made it to the back, the 3rd(Brute) got surrounded my Oozes. My lowest level out of the 3 was the Mindthief and with his invisibility card was able to survive and clean 2 out of the 3 pipes while my scoundrel was able to clean 1 and then died shortly after.
 
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Not really a fan of that scenario because it can be made considerably easier by having the right items and cards, but you only know that once you did it (and possibly failed).

Spawning the imps on the pipes makes this a tiny bit easier, not sure if it's legit.
 
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Wes Holland

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Khift wrote:
This was far and away the hardest scenario I've seen so far. We failed our first try with 4 players as the room immediately filled up with 10 imps and we could not possibly kill them fast enough to get into the room. Invisibility is definitely key here I think.

As for spawning, the map layout has the water pumps listed as difficult terrain -- so by that logic you can stand on the actual tile. Therefore, to me, that implies that when a water pump spawns an imp it spawns on the tile. If there's something already on the tile then per the spawning rules it must spawn on an adjacent empty hex of the player's choice.


The special rules state that the pipes Summon the Imps. So I treated the water hexes as the things that were doing the Summoning and placed Imps on Empty Hexes next to the difficult terrain whenever possible...


And yeah, Invisibility abuse is definitely the best way to go for this scenario. Triforce class and Mindthief finished it up for us, and the Mindthief was very sad he didn't bring his Invisibility card.

(Had to look up rules for what happens if you complete the Goal but everyone Exhausts before the round ends. I think you still Win? We had our Triforce character up with 1HP and 2 cards in discard at the end of the round anyway.)
 
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Chris Willott
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Down to the wire on our second try.
The first time - one cleanse was it.
The second time, we went in prepared, our triforce packed
Spoiler (click to reveal)
her invisibility granting card

and her striding boots, my 3 spears brought his striding boots, and our Lighting brought his jumping boots.

Lighting was set to cleanse the third pump, then got immobilized by the Living Corpse, so it was up to me.
[o]After cleansing the first (and suffering many a shot) I was hurting, so triforce turned me invisible... I got to the pump, and then with 4 HP, no cards remaining, I played on initiative 46 and prayed. All three monster types went earlier (while I was still invisible), so I JUST survived to the end of the round.
 
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g mos
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Khift wrote:


Invisibility is definitely the key to this mission. I highly recommend abusing it whenever possible.


Invisibility is key. Unfortunately, you can't clean a pipe with a character that is taking a long-rest, as you don't have a bottom action to forgo.

-G
 
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Gabriel Rockman
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CrushU wrote:
And yeah, Invisibility abuse is definitely the best way to go for this scenario. Triforce class and Mindthief finished it up for us, and the Mindthief was very sad he didn't bring his Invisibility card.


I'll definitely bring my invisibility card when my group tries this scenario next week. I'll bring Scurry, too, even though I've only been using that card for opening doors in the past. It sounds like mobility is important in the last room.

We'll be a level 7 Cragheart (he retires after the scenario as it will be his 15th scenario), a level 4 Angry Face, a level 3 Sun, and my level 6 Mindthief (my last Gloomhaven scenario for my PQ).

Spoilers for non-starting class strategies:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The Doomstalker's ability to keep enemies from going invisible looks like it will be handy here.

The lack of armor on our enemies should help since we don't really have any pierce abilities.

The Sunkeeper is building himself up for damage and tanking, not healing, so we are quite short on heals (and it will be even worse when the Cragheart switches to Plagueherald). In this scenario, that's pretty scary with the Imps poisoning when they attack.

I haven't seen much multi-target damage from the Sunkeeper at all. The Doomstalker has been able to do it sometimes with some dooms, or with his add target card. My Mindthief is certainly not good at multi-target damage, either. In this way, we kind of miss the Spellweaver.

Any idea how to handle the large number of enemies we'll face given our group composition?


I'm guessing the key will be my teammates doing multi-target damage (and me using my Mindthief's mobility to cleanse a couple of pumps early).

Any ideas for what the Cragheart should be doing with obstacle placement?
 
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Gabriel Rockman
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It turned out to be easy for us: I think we got lucky with the Imps playing cards for healing allies or strengthening allies a couple of times.

Spoiler for Sun & Angry Face strategies:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I think one of the keys was the Sunkeeper using the bottom of Mobilizing Axiom after I opened the last door using my usual Scurry + Into the Night combo. This allowed me to be next to a water pump (and invisible) at the end of the turn where I opened the door for the last room. It also got other people close enough to the door, but not so close that they would get hit by the Imps or Living Corpses (as always, my Mindthief is way ahead of my teammates). The Sunkeeper played Mobilizing Axiom with 23 initiative, which meant that my two teammates got to position themselves before they played their turns.

By the way, we decided that I was allowed to use the jump boots on my movement that was provided to me by the Sunkeeper during his turn. It just says "during your movement" not "during your turn" for the item. This is what allowed me to jump over the Living Corpses and next to the water pump.

The Doomstalker's big single target damage helped us kill the two Living Corpses in the last room fairly quickly.


For my second turn in the room, I was able to cleanse a water pump (using Gnawing Horde for its 82 initiative after having gone invisible the turn before). Cleansing a pump that early was nice.

For my third turn, we had another stroke of wonderful luck, and the two Living Corpses had gone up to attack the Cragheart that was standing in the doorway, so the Night Demons had stopped moving right next to me because they had nowhere to go. I was able to use Fearsome Blade with the Battle Axe to push two Night Demons into stun traps and use Perverse Edge to stun an elite Imp.

Using Fearsome Blade to push Night Demons into the stun traps helps a lot.

Once we had killed everything but the normal imps, it was a breeze.


In the second room, I went invisible in the spot between the elite Night Demon and the obstacle. This helped create a longer path for the Night Demons to go in reaching my non-invisible teammates, and it grouped them up together perfectly for the Cragheart's Forceful Storm (which combined with Backup Ammunition allowed him to disarm all four Night Demons at once).

Yet another stroke of good luck was in the second room, drawing a rolling stun on one of the Oozes when using Mass Hysteria against two Oozes and two Night Demons on a turn where the Oozes were going to split.


Invisibility was very useful for me in this scenario, and jump movement was also very important for me and for my teammates.

My normal strategy of slipping past the guys in the front to attack the guys in the back was again valuable. In particular, the stuns on the Ooze in room 2 and the Night Demons and Ooze in room 3 were very useful.

The Cragheart has really figured out how to play with obstacles, it's a shame that he's retiring. With the Imps having low movement and plenty of water & stun traps in the last room, he was able to be very useful with his placement of obstacles (you can force enemies to move through water or traps if you place obstacles correctly). He had one Imp trapped in a corner for a few turns in a row until it had a turn with move 2 to move onto the water to get out of the corner.
 
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Kevin De Schutter
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This was our first failure in 20 scenario’s played...using a L6 Music note, a L7 Scoundrel, a L3 Cragheart and a L3 crescent moon/moon Class. Unfortunately, we tried it at difficulty +1 (level 4)for the first time, because our previous scenario’s went too easy. The Oozes in the second chamber went from 2 to 4, and next turn to 8... and then came the imps...10 ranged basterds was too much for us, disarmed 3 pipes though !! I think I cursed at least 50 times with our party, but we were still overwhelmed.
 
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Gabriel Rockman
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Zekere wrote:
This was our first failure in 20 scenario’s played...using a L6 Music note, a L7 Scoundrel, a L3 Cragheart and a L3 crescent moon/moon Class. Unfortunately, we tried it at difficulty +1 (level 4)for the first time, because our previous scenario’s went too easy. The Oozes in the second chamber went from 2 to 4, and next turn to 8... and then came the imps...10 ranged basterds was too much for us, disarmed 3 pipes though !! I think I cursed at least 50 times with our party, but we were still overwhelmed.


Send the Scoundrel or the Moon to attack the Oozes before the Night Demons have been killed.

In the last room, if the Cragheart puts up some obstacles, the Scoundrel juggles initiative to run away every other turn, and the Moon stays invisible, then many of the Imps (i.e. all the ones in the back of the room) won't have anyone to attack.

Edit: I just realized that the Cragheart doesn't get Rock Slide until level 4, so that part of the strategy won't work.

Still, try to stay out of range of the Imps, especially the ones in the back. The Scoundrel and Moon might be able to cleanse the two pumps at the front of the room early on, and then you can focus on killing Night Demons, Living Corpses, and the two elite Imps while not having to deal with normal imps for a few turns.
 
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Kevin De Schutter
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gabrielrockman1 wrote:
Zekere wrote:
This was our first failure in 20 scenario’s played...using a L6 Music note, a L7 Scoundrel, a L3 Cragheart and a L3 crescent moon/moon Class. Unfortunately, we tried it at difficulty +1 (level 4)for the first time, because our previous scenario’s went too easy. The Oozes in the second chamber went from 2 to 4, and next turn to 8... and then came the imps...10 ranged basterds was too much for us, disarmed 3 pipes though !! I think I cursed at least 50 times with our party, but we were still overwhelmed.


Send the Scoundrel or the Moon to attack the Oozes before the Night Demons have been killed.

In the last room, if the Cragheart puts up some obstacles, the Scoundrel juggles initiative to run away every other turn, and the Moon stays invisible, then many of the Imps (i.e. all the ones in the back of the room) won't have anyone to attack.

Edit: I just realized that the Cragheart doesn't get Rock Slide until level 4, so that part of the strategy won't work.

Still, try to stay out of range of the Imps, especially the ones in the back. The Scoundrel and Moon might be able to cleanse the two pumps at the front of the room early on, and then you can focus on killing Night Demons, Living Corpses, and the two elite Imps while not having to deal with normal imps for a few turns.
Thanks for the advise !! Actually, I liked that we failed...the game seemed like becoming too easy on us!
 
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Pretty similar party setup: L3 music note, L3 moon class, L2 scoundrel, L6 tinkerer. Moon class was the only one leaving the first room. Got movement boost from me (music note), had jump boots, abused invisibitily as much as possible. So all the enemies rushed for us! We had an epic fight and lasted until the round before moon class cleansed the last well. He had only 1 or 2 cards lost before cleansing well 4, but then no more invisibility possible. Lost all except 3 cards to survive the imps!!! But we did it. Played on hard btw.
 
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