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Zpocalypse 2: Defend the Burbs» Forums » General

Subject: Wasteland expansion not including promised items? rss

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Nico Caton
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Looking through the Wasteland expansion I noticed several things missing from the originally promised items in the deluxe package (Yay Beans, rad mutations, something's happening cards). Can I ask why these items were omitted? As it is now, the expansion is a very meager beastie and really not worth the money.
 
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Jerry Tresman
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NeonJuggler wrote:
Looking through the Wasteland expansion I noticed several things missing from the originally promised items in the deluxe package (Yay Beans, rad mutations, something's happening cards). Can I ask why these items were omitted? As it is now, the expansion is a very meager beastie and really not worth the money.


KS is for developing a product and is not a Retail Shop , hence things will change as the product is developed.

I think Yay Beans was just an example and probably has a close equivalent.
Rad Mutaitions are built into the critical wounds / perks combos and I suspect some of the scavenging encounters.
Noted in the Rulebook that the scavenging encounters replace Something Happening cards , although I think they are closer to the Encounter Cards.

I think the expansion adds a lot of gameplay and do feel they should have included new cards for the Aftermath (armoury and Characters) to make them all "speial Characters" - they are hung up on the "guests" thing which to me is a theme breaker.

The aftermath would have fitted well with this expansion.

There is more game thn you think and its quality of content not quantity of minis or tokens.

I am hoping they do add more updated content from Classic zpocalypse , starting with the Aftermath and maybe update them for retail with new chapters and Events booklets for road/scavenging encounters.

They are working on Zpoclypse and other game Card lists so hopefully these will allow us to incorporate the old characters and Armoury items into Zpocalypse 2.

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Nico Caton
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I'm not mad that things have changed. I understand that it's a product in development. However, taking away two stacks of cards (and no, there's no equivalent of 'Yay Beans', which was a specific homage to one KS backer, in the Wasteland expansion) and putting nothing else in as a compensation seriously devalued the Deluxe package. I, and I suspect many others, wouldn't have paid 25$ extra if we knew the contents of the Deluxe package to be what they are.
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Richard Lunardi
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Surely a KS campaign promises a set of deliverables. I would think they should stay the same from the end of the campaign to delivery as that is what everyone signed up for.

For me, KS isn't for developing products it is to fund the production of a product. The product is described in detail in the campaign.

"Kickstarter helps artists, musicians, filmmakers, designers, and other creators find the resources and support they need to make their ideas a reality."

I am ok with what Greenbrier games delivered with Zpocalypse 2, but I got a bit nervous when they decided they were redesigning parts of the game after the campaign closed.
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Jerry Tresman
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Lunardirp wrote:
Surely a KS campaign promises a set of deliverables. I would think they should stay the same from the end of the campaign to delivery as that is what everyone signed up for.

For me, KS isn't for developing products it is to fund the production of a product. The product is described in detail in the campaign.

"Kickstarter helps artists, musicians, filmmakers, designers, and other creators find the resources and support they need to make their ideas a reality."

I am ok with what Greenbrier games delivered with Zpocalypse 2, but I got a bit nervous when they decided they were redesigning parts of the game after the campaign closed.



Whatever individuals want it to be it is a crodfunding alernative to private investment. It is to develop someones idea into a finished work. Campaigns start off at varius stages of this path from ides to prototype. Development is part of it and even working prototypes will change when they come up against production, execution or a wider audience.

We risk our money to finance something we believe in , hoping out belief and trut is not misplaced. I am pretty sure 99.95% of campaigns that produce somehing state that there finished product is subject to change. Really no different from anything you pre order from home delivery phone , to broadband, to pre-order systems for games.

You mywant it to be for proucing a product , some state just tat but in reality most of the innovative ones re for developing and producing a product.

How else do you make a dream a reality without developing it ?
 
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Jerry Tresman
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I will add that personally , I don't always like change especially after the campaign is ended but that is the risk we take.

I like the new encounter system for scavenging and the tactical system, not sure about 5 x 1 hour rounds per night being thematic, it also means you have to take huge risks to get anything done.

Perks should help so maybe its just the prologue that is so brutal. As an inrtroduction to a game that is not always a good thing.

For me the biggest element of trust for GBG is delevering on compatibility for the Calssic Zpoc content especially for the Aftermath expansions and Zmgency , Zhospital - well all the expansions and extras we bought for it.

I have a rule in these cases in that I do not back other campaigns by companies that do not make reasonable steps to deliver on campaign promises , beyond the pledges or are very quiet. This obviously includes delivering on the main pledge or showing goood eveidence it is on its way.

I am relieved that GBG did deliver and are making some strides for compaibilty , evidence by current effort they are putting in now. However they had been very quiet for a long time and so I have kept away from their other campaigns, not really looking at anything of theirs, so as not to be tempted and obviously not to throw good money after bad.

I hope Zpoc matures well as it has everything there to raise is above others in this genre especially as its more than just a tactical skirmish (Z War One: Damnation excelsin that area) , however I won't buy expansions if my previous stuff is made useless.


Rules wise there is still a bit of tuning to do but i know that is being worked on and feedback being listened to.

PS Please Remind me what was Yay Beans again ? was it just fluff?
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Brian C
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Starman54 wrote:
PS Please Remind me what was Yay Beans again ? was it just fluff?

Just a single promo card. And if that's the only item missing, I wouldn't blame GBG for it, but rather just bad luck: it was named after a backer who ended up being rather troublesome, and GBG probably had a certain contingent of cranky old BGGers complain that they didn't want that person in a game that they were backing.

So it comes down to a bunch of stupid drama, in other words, which had nothing to do with GBG.

Now why they have basically been next to silent about this game in the months leading up to its release -- you can't blame that on the drama behind a single promo card.

Nor if the game is a blast to play, or a complete flop. And I'm very interested to see which way it ends up leaning.

(If you can't tell by now, I'm that backer Yay Beans -- and I should apologize to the person who's idea it was to make that card. Your faith in me proved unfounded; I had another agenda and it didn't involve making myself look good. It was simply about prodding this sleepy industry into motion. Regardless, it sucks that you were caught in the middle, and hopefully the bigwigs at GBG have forgiven you for it.)
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Richard Lunardi
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From Kickstarter

>A project is a finite work with a clear goal that you’d like to bring to >life. Think albums, books, or films.

>The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project.

It is not (Though a fair amount of campaigns are) "I have a kind of idea give me your money and let's see what we end up with". Because I am really creative.

There are plenty of good examples of games following the way it should be and the way it shouldn't. I don't think that has anything to do with the creativity, but more to do with the professionalism of the company

I am happy to accept that minor changes may be unavoidable, but they should be communicated clearly.

Again I am happy with what I got from greenbrier games. But I didn't like being told they were redesigning.
 
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Jerry Tresman
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I suppose it boils down to how you define a finite piece of work.
Think albums exact songs and length of tracks - I doubt it.

books number of chapters all subjetcs (characters etc.) number of words - I doubt it., or films as for books and albums.

So really its a sketched outline for games, albums, books, or films. Sort of the storyboard you use to get investment .. which was my point.

I think you sank your own argument whistle

 
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Walter Barber
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Hey guys

I wanted to pop in here and say that I really appreciate your willingness to discuss these issues, and how open minded you guys have been.

I have addressed the concerns about the Wasteland expansion contents in a kickstarter update:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gbg/zpocalypse-2-defend...

In regards to Yay Beans specifically, we will do our best to make that up to this community by including the promo card elsewhere, first and foremost as part of the downloadable content expansion to Defend the Burbs. I sincerely hope that in the mean time the absence of Beans does not negatively impact anyone's gameplay experience.

Please feel free to message me or post here with any questions, and I will do my best to answer.

Thank you guys.

-Walter
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Richard Lunardi
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Jerry I made the point I wanted to make...thanks....happy you have your own interpretation of that and are happy with it as well.

Walter thanks for the explanation on the items included in the expansion versus what was promised.

While I won't try to speak for everybody.....I am ok with no beans and appreciate you taking the time to explain the other changes.



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