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Arcadia Quest: Inferno» Forums » General

Subject: Runaway Guilds in Inferno rss

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Hrm Hrmmm
Canada
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Hi everyone, so we're only 1/2 way through our first Inferno campaign, but it seems like there are a couple of problems, stemming from the ability for a guild to easily run away with a huge lead.

Angels seem to be quite OP. One of our players found the angel who allows an extra move point for all members of the guild, and he just basically moves everyone together and denies line of sight to his sniper archer in the back row who can just pick off people at will. He has Blossom, who ignores defense dice.

The problem is the rewards in Inferno. Once someone uncovers or rescues the Angel, that's the only reward. And it's a big one. So while regular AQ provides two copies of a reward card, helping to keep the guilds somewhat balanced, in Inferno, you grab an angel, that quest is complete, and no one else can benefit from that quest, leaving the one runaway guild with power creep and a big advantage going into the next scenario.

Any suggestions for solutions? Allow two angels to be rescued? Wouldn't that trivialize the pve content?

Also, Pets seems to really trivialize the pve content on it's own, let alone the addition of Angels.

Super fun game! Just needs a bit of a tweak.
 
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Christoph Weber
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Hmnhrmmm wrote:
Hi everyone, so we're only 1/2 way through our first Inferno campaign, but it seems like there are a couple of problems, stemming from the ability for a guild to easily run away with a huge lead.

Angels seem to be quite OP. One of our players found the angel who allows an extra move point for all members of the guild, and he just basically moves everyone together and denies line of sight to his sniper archer in the back row who can just pick off people at will. He has Blossom, who ignores defense dice.

The problem is the rewards in Inferno. Once someone uncovers or rescues the Angel, that's the only reward. And it's a big one. So while regular AQ provides two copies of a reward card, helping to keep the guilds somewhat balanced, in Inferno, you grab an angel, that quest is complete, and no one else can benefit from that quest, leaving the one runaway guild with power creep and a big advantage going into the next scenario.

Any suggestions for solutions? Allow two angels to be rescued? Wouldn't that trivialize the pve content?

Also, Pets seems to really trivialize the pve content on it's own, let alone the addition of Angels.

Super fun game! Just needs a bit of a tweak.


Maybe play with pets in each scenario that has an angel - even if you don't do it otherwise. That way you'll have two guilds that come away with something cool and powerful from that map.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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webs1 wrote:
Hmnhrmmm wrote:
One of our players found the angel who allows an extra move point for all members of the guild, and he just basically moves everyone together and denies line of sight to his sniper archer in the back row who can just pick off people at will. He has Blossom, who ignores defense dice.

Any suggestions for solutions? Allow two angels to be rescued? Wouldn't that trivialize the pve content?
Also, Pets seems to really trivialize the pve content on it's own, let alone the addition of Angels.

Super fun game! Just needs a bit of a tweak.


Maybe play with pets in each scenario that has an angel - even if you don't do it otherwise. That way you'll have two guilds that come away with something cool and powerful from that map.

And what if the Angel player also gets the Pet??

Yeah balance was never AQ's greatest asset ...
 
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DrProfHazzmatt
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What about cooperation amongst the other guilds to break the angel player's combo and then go back to beating the crap out of each other?
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Christoph Weber
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Teowulff wrote:
webs1 wrote:
Hmnhrmmm wrote:
One of our players found the angel who allows an extra move point for all members of the guild, and he just basically moves everyone together and denies line of sight to his sniper archer in the back row who can just pick off people at will. He has Blossom, who ignores defense dice.

Any suggestions for solutions? Allow two angels to be rescued? Wouldn't that trivialize the pve content?
Also, Pets seems to really trivialize the pve content on it's own, let alone the addition of Angels.

Super fun game! Just needs a bit of a tweak.


Maybe play with pets in each scenario that has an angel - even if you don't do it otherwise. That way you'll have two guilds that come away with something cool and powerful from that map.

And what if the Angel player also gets the Pet??

Yeah balance was never AQ's greatest asset ...


Then the other players are just too bad at PVP and should be playing Takenoko instead...
 
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Trueflight Silverwing
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That's the beauty of the multiple guild play of AQ. If one guild starts to pull ahead and get a lead, it is up to the other three guilds to work together to stop that from happening. I don't care how powerful your guild gets, when you are outnumbered 9-3 in the game, you are going to get knocked down a peg or two.

As someone else said, balance has never been the strong suit of AQ. It is up to the players to forge temporary alliances and work together to keep things in check.
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Dreadknot Knotdread
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This is my first experience with AQ at all and I noticed this potential after my second game. I was hoping there was some catch up mechanism built in but apparently there isn't.

I was planning on just playing against the wife but if one of us is going to dominate with no way to offset that, then I'll probably have to pass.

 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Ender02 wrote:
That's the beauty of the multiple guild play of AQ. If one guild starts to pull ahead and get a lead, it is up to the other three guilds to work together to stop that from happening. I don't care how powerful your guild gets, when you are outnumbered 9-3 in the game, you are going to get knocked down a peg or two.

As someone else said, balance has never been the strong suit of AQ. It is up to the players to forge temporary alliances and work together to keep things in check.

Must say it's quite a challenge sometimes. I am playing a 3-player BtG campaign with some new equipment and heroes mixed in. Still, Wisp with the Soulstone is really hard to stop; once he has sneaked through the first groups of monsters you can't really catch him anymore and often gets to the scenario objectives a long time before we have fought our way there.

And this happens even though I have Blossom with the Widowmaker and a +1 dice ring ..

angry
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WD Yoga
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I havent tried this (we are busy playing Masmorra atm) but how about shutting down the OP hero with Zsa Zsa? Her power is to disable other heroes' natural ability on wound. I think she is very powerful as counter hero.
 
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Sam Hoffman
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The balance can rapidly change due to good item buys and character abilities changing in strength throughout the campaign.

In a campaign, Raven team dominated first couple of games (Tyndall's ability was extremely powerful early on, but 2 damage became weaker as game went on). Then Tiger guild took the next 2 games, mainly because of grabbing an angel and some great item drafts. Shark guild won the next game. In the final mission, Serpent guild (who had been under-performing the entire game, sometimes never completing a single quest) took down the Underlord with Hoshi having a terrific swing with the Uberblade. They had been weak the entire game but won the campaign. Someone else took Power Behind the Throne though...

In summary, the balance can rapidly change by a couple of upgrade buys unlocking an awesome combo for your Guild.
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Some combos are hard to deal with but if a player is too strong, all guilds are meant to stop it.

In the end without enough money to upgrade clan falls rapidly.

Only thing i suggest is removing those monstruosity that widowmaker widow lament are.
They clearly weren't tested once...those are indeed gamebreaking.

If anything, if you have enough heroes i would also consider removing seth and maybe blossom... or house rule them to work only on near targets.

Armor bypass is needed in game to balance tanky heroes, but doing it at distance and even worse with any spell is too much (seth could do it even while dead in AQ and btg).
 
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Kaganishu Khan
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Generally speaking, AQ:I has less problems with runaway guilds than the original AQ, and several tools to reign them back in. However, this requires an understanding among the players who needs to be stopped.

First of all, Brimstone cards and the Damnation mechanic are tools to affect and stop heroes beyond the reach of your current hero deployment. In exchange for some Damnation, you can often bridge the power gap a little better, and/or punish them for building a damnation-heavy item/team comp, which in my experience is often the reason for a guild becoming the "leader" early on.

Second, depending on your way of drafting/handing out heroes, it often makes sense to invest in counters to a particularly strong hero in the game. Stop just looking at your own cards, consider what THEY bring to the table. During the upgrade phase, its imperative that the players who pass on cards to the runaway guild deny them the big cards, and not just draw what they like to buy. Once again, this requires the rest of the table to figure out who is in the lead, but is generally good advice anyway.
PvP does not stop after the scenario, the upgrade phase is PvP too !!

Third, as has been noted above, gang up on them. Take out 1 or 2 of their heroes, limit their movement, or block their PvE goal accomplishment. Figure out rewards that you CANNOT afford them to get. Most of my games are decided by the first PvE goal, because the PvP goals tend to be achieved almost immediately on the start of the scenario, so figure out which PvE goal is in range for the runaway guild, and band togehter to deny that!

Runaway guilds are usually the result of one guild having a stronger hero setup, and then gaining one or two significant rewards that really add well into their setup. I had Phyx (not a great hero by any means) get the Finisher in the first mission, got Benjamin as a reward later and Battering Up!. Phyx alone one-shot killed pretty much any- and everything after the first game, but nobody ever thought about specifically dealing with him. Their fault, my gain

So, identify their strengths and counteract them. Angels in particular can be quite powerful, but ganging up on them still works fine.
 
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