Recommend
5 
 Thumb up
 Hide
54 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

Tasty Minstrel Games» Forums » News

Subject: Tasty Minstrel Launches Crowdfunded Investment Opportunity rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Rick
United States
Savage
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Here's the link to the MicroVentures page. https://app.microventures.com/crowdfunding/tasty-minstrel-ga...

I'm actually not really sure what this is... I get that they are trying to raise money for the company, but I'm not quite sure how the "stock" works with this. How as an investor does one make money from this investment?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Karl Markovich
United States
Peoria
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RiffRaff14 wrote:

I'm actually not really sure what this is... I get that they are trying to raise money for the company, but I'm not quite sure how the "stock" works with this. How as an investor does one make money from this investment?

I've been looking at it trying to figure out the same.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick
United States
Savage
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
If TMG gets purchased by Asmodee, I could understand how that would work... but otherwise I don't see why I would invest. Is there a dividend? How can I sell my shares...? etc.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy W
United States
Wheatfield
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
For those wanting to know how much money there is in boardgaming, the financial highlights gives some interesting numbers.

Company Highlights

- Has raised over $2.5 million on Kickstarter to fund 26 individual hobby board gaming projects

- Has sold over 400,000 games since inception

- Has generated over $5 million in gross sales since inception

- Generated over $1.2 million in revenue in 2016

- Gross profit increased 33% in 2016 to over $475,000 from over $350,000 in 2015

- TMG Gamer Email List has 25,912 subscribers with a 40.7% average open rate

More financials exist on the page.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick
United States
Savage
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Yeah, the numbers on the page are really interesting. I'm sure many will point out that:

- TMG gets $2.5 million over 6 years and 26 projects.
- CMON gets $2.5 million over 2 weeks for Rising Sun.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Herodotus Halicarnassus
United States
West Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
hair10 wrote:
RiffRaff14 wrote:

I'm actually not really sure what this is... I get that they are trying to raise money for the company, but I'm not quite sure how the "stock" works with this. How as an investor does one make money from this investment?

I've been looking at it trying to figure out the same.


If you look at the "TMG Form C" under investment documents on the MicroVentures website, starting on page 24 there's a financial section. I'm no expert when it comes to finance, but I'm not an amateur either. And there are some...interesting...parts.

Of especial note: Distributions are not guaranteed, even if the company makes a spectacular profit (which I note from their own chart they operate in the red some months). "Shares" are not traded on the market, i.e. you won't be able to ring up your broker and sell your share in the company, and even if you could find a buyer, you're not permitted to sell except back to the company (which is not required to buy your share) or to an accredited investor (i.e. not your average BGGeeker). You do get voting rights...on a single matter: the liquidation of the company. As the Mindes family will have a majority of the shares, though, those rights don't matter. Crucially, the way I read the "Allocations" section, it sounds like operating losses can come directly from member's capital contributions.

In short: I wouldn't buy unless someone not affiliated with the company who knows a lot more about this than I do comes along and points out how I'm wrong.

Edit to add: by their own admission they've operated at a net loss for the past two years. -$4868 in 2015 and -$41,597 in 2016.
12 
 Thumb up
0.50
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Karl Markovich
United States
Peoria
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Herodotus Herodotus wrote:
hair10 wrote:
RiffRaff14 wrote:

I'm actually not really sure what this is... I get that they are trying to raise money for the company, but I'm not quite sure how the "stock" works with this. How as an investor does one make money from this investment?

I've been looking at it trying to figure out the same.


If you look at the "TMG Form C" under investment documents on the MicroVentures website, starting on page 24 there's a financial section. I'm no expert when it comes to finance, but I'm not an amateur either. And there are some...interesting...parts.

Of especial note: Distributions are not guaranteed, even if the company makes a spectacular profit (which I note from their own chart they operate in the red some months). "Shares" are not traded on the market, i.e. you won't be able to ring up your broker and sell your share in the company, and even if you could find a buyer, you're not permitted to sell except back to the company (which is not required to buy your share) or to an accredited investor (i.e. not your average BGGeeker). You do get voting rights...on a single matter: the liquidation of the company. As the Mindes family will have a majority of the shares, though, those rights don't matter. Crucially, the way I read the "Allocations" section, it sounds like operating losses can come directly from member's capital contributions.

In short: I wouldn't buy unless someone not affiliated with the company who knows a lot more about this than I do comes along and points out how I'm wrong.

Edit to add: by their own admission they've operated at a net loss for the past two years. -$4868 in 2015 and -$41,597 in 2016.


Saw all that and, honestly, none of it really bothers me. They've reduced the amount of debt/losses considerably so it appears they're trending in the right direction. As for not having voting rights or selling the stock, neither really concern me. However, other than the "perks" listed on the page, I'd like to have some understanding of what my investment will (might) get me. Dividends? Profit sharing? (both assuming the company does well, obviously). Or do I just get a couple of games and a sweatshirt for my $1500 and the chance to be first to dump more money into it on future rounds of fund seeking? I don't see anything that really spells out what the options might be.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick
United States
Savage
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Thanks. I didn't make that far on that form. So basically there no point.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sheryl Nantus
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm curious about this as well - I like to support the underdogs and small companies that need the money but I'm not getting what the benefit here is to me, the investor.

So I get what for my $150?

If someone from TMG would like to answer it, please do!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Walth
United States
Clearfield
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
The Mountain That Drums
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sheryl Nantus wrote:
I'm curious about this as well - I like to support the underdogs and small companies that need the money but I'm not getting what the benefit here is to me, the investor.

So I get what for my $150?

If someone from TMG would like to answer it, please do!


We at TMG, can only refer you to the platform for questions and answers. We cannot solicit for investment. All of the information is on the platform for your perusal.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephanie Prince
Canada
Lacombe
AB
flag msg tools
I'm holding out for a Euro 'til the end of the ni-ight...
badge
Misumena vatia
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Maybe it's a move to keep TMG from being acquired by Asmodee?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Herodotus Halicarnassus
United States
West Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
hair10 wrote:
Herodotus Herodotus wrote:
hair10 wrote:
RiffRaff14 wrote:

I'm actually not really sure what this is... I get that they are trying to raise money for the company, but I'm not quite sure how the "stock" works with this. How as an investor does one make money from this investment?

I've been looking at it trying to figure out the same.


If you look at the "TMG Form C" under investment documents on the MicroVentures website, starting on page 24 there's a financial section. I'm no expert when it comes to finance, but I'm not an amateur either. And there are some...interesting...parts.

Of especial note: Distributions are not guaranteed, even if the company makes a spectacular profit (which I note from their own chart they operate in the red some months). "Shares" are not traded on the market, i.e. you won't be able to ring up your broker and sell your share in the company, and even if you could find a buyer, you're not permitted to sell except back to the company (which is not required to buy your share) or to an accredited investor (i.e. not your average BGGeeker). You do get voting rights...on a single matter: the liquidation of the company. As the Mindes family will have a majority of the shares, though, those rights don't matter. Crucially, the way I read the "Allocations" section, it sounds like operating losses can come directly from member's capital contributions.

In short: I wouldn't buy unless someone not affiliated with the company who knows a lot more about this than I do comes along and points out how I'm wrong.

Edit to add: by their own admission they've operated at a net loss for the past two years. -$4868 in 2015 and -$41,597 in 2016.


Saw all that and, honestly, none of it really bothers me. They've reduced the amount of debt/losses considerably so it appears they're trending in the right direction. As for not having voting rights or selling the stock, neither really concern me. However, other than the "perks" listed on the page, I'd like to have some understanding of what my investment will (might) get me. Dividends? Profit sharing? (both assuming the company does well, obviously). Or do I just get a couple of games and a sweatshirt for my $1500 and the chance to be first to dump more money into it on future rounds of fund seeking? I don't see anything that really spells out what the options might be.


The pitch definitely needs work. It's certainly not clear what you're getting for your money as an investor (but I get the feeling they're not looking for "investor" investors, just gamers who want to own a piece of a company).

I would point out that you may have read the numbers backwards. Their net loss up almost 900% from 2015 to 2016 - the trend is in the wrong direction. I would also point out that "distribution" as used here is equivalent to dividends, so they'll only be paid if the company deems they should be paid. In TMG's defense on this, MOST small business don't pay dividends -- profit, if any, is reinvested in the growth of the company.

Essentially, from what I can tell and assuming that these shares are binding and legitimate, the only way to make money off this is if TMG becomes a "big player" in the board games industry and people start wanting the shares (or the company decides to re-purchase the shares from you in preparation for a true public offering).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Karl Markovich
United States
Peoria
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Herodotus Herodotus wrote:

I would point out that you may have read the numbers backwards. Their net loss up almost 900% from 2015 to 2016 - the trend is in the wrong direction.

Yeah, I was only looking at their net income and not their debt they had accumulated.

AWTama wrote:
All of the information is on the platform for your perusal.

I was afraid that was the case. :-/
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam Lam I Am
United States
Highland
UT
flag msg tools
To play is human; to win, divine.
badge
There is no shame in losing, if you remain unafraid to play again. -Losers
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RiffRaff14 wrote:
How as an investor does one make money from this investment?


Asmodee acquires TMG.

Doesn't seem so far-fetched, but also obviously not as safe as investing in a big, public company, like Enron.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charlie Theel
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ajsletten wrote:
The same way anyone makes money by owning stock. Stock represents a share of ownership in the company. As the company grows, so does the value of your shares. The prospectus states that you will see return on investment through potential future dividends (distribution of a percentage of profits) stock buyback (where the shares go up in value and the company offers to buy the stock back at the higher price) or liquidation due to merger or sale (the purchasing company pays you the higher share value). An investor may also see other benefits like free shares, etc, depending on success.

Note, I am not an employee of The company, nor an investment advisor. Please don't take this as 100% truth. I am a backer, at a reasonably high level, of their campaign, though.

Cheers


The primary way you make money by owning stock is by selling it at a higher price than what you paid. Not waiting and hoping the company you own shares of is bought. You cannot legally sell your slice of TMG. Counting on dividends from a company at this size is a bit ludicrous, especially with their financial numbers. They would need to generate much higher profits and decide not to put those profits into growth.

Someone on reddit pointed this out, but the company would have to be bought for over 3 million (what TMG currently values itself as) for Investors to even see what they put into it back. If Asmodee buys TMG for just 3 million, everyone buying "shares" here gets no return.

What's the likelihood Asmodee spends over 3 million to acquire TMG?
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick
United States
Savage
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
samlamiam wrote:
RiffRaff14 wrote:
How as an investor does one make money from this investment?


Asmodee acquires TMG.

Doesn't seem so far-fetched, but also obviously not as safe as investing in a big, public company, like Enron.
Asmodee has no reason to acquire TMG. TMG has some of it's own games, but some of their recent big stuff is just buying the rights to other games: Orleans, Colosseum, Amun-Re, etc. Asmodee can go do that already.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam Lam I Am
United States
Highland
UT
flag msg tools
To play is human; to win, divine.
badge
There is no shame in losing, if you remain unafraid to play again. -Losers
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RiffRaff14 wrote:
Asmodee has no reason to acquire TMG.


Shrewd! Using reverse psychology on Asmodee. I like it.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charlie Theel
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ajsletten wrote:
I think many shareholders in IBM or GE would strongly disagree dividends are worthless. Granted, this company is nowhere near mature, and likely won't offer dividends any time soon.


I never said dividends are worthless. We both agree TMG likely won't be offering dividends anytime soon.

Quote:
I say read all the documents, if you're uncomfortable, don't invest. If you need advice, find an investment advisor. Personally, I think relying on a guy from Reddit for financial advice is more risky than this campaign.


I'm not relying on a guy from Reddit. I merely thought that was interesting and didn't want to take credit for the comment.



Concerning your middle paragraph, you keep comparing this investment through MicroVentures to purchasing/owning stock in TMG. This is not the same thing at all and your ownership is extremely restricted. I'd be surprised in this situation if your ownership was converted into shares of Asmodee stock if you were purchased.

You also seem to agree with TMG's valuation of itself, which I don't necessarily think is accurate.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charlie Theel
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ajsletten wrote:
I may have misunderstood you, sorry. My point was that buying and selling is not by any means the only way people make money on stock.


I agree with you.


Quote:
And I look at owning shares in a company as owning stock in a company because that's what it is. Having restrictions on buying and selling does not make it something else (see stock in the Green Bay packers). We can agree to disagree on what these shares really are, though. I am curious about the issues you have with the valuation. What do you think the company should be valued at, and why?


Fair enough. I haven't put in the effort to feel comfortable naming a price and I don't plan to as I'm not interested in investing in TMG. I was just expressing doubt, which you can certainly value as worthless conjecture.

If someone wants to invest in TMG, that's fine. I have no problem with people doing whatever makes them happy. When I played Cosmic Encounter with Michael Mindes at Geekway last year, he seemed like a fine person. No ill will towards the company at all.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jarvis
United States
Brisbane
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ajsletten wrote:
Personally, I think relying on a guy from Reddit for financial advice is more risky than this campaign.


Hi there, guy from reddit popping in to say hello!

From my perspective, I'd summarize my opinion as "caution, I think this is a bad investment and probably a scam." So, if that is financial advice from some guy on reddit, so be it. The important detail is, I'm not recommending for folks to spend money on this poor investment, but the opposite. I don't think I need to be a paid financial advisor to say that people are better off spending their money on an index fund than this "investment opportunity."

charlest wrote:

You also seem to agree with TMG's valuation of itself, which I don't necessarily think is accurate.


I was just thinking about this very thing, and came to BGG to see if anyone was discussing it. I just can't wrap my head around the $3M valuation claimed by TMG.

What gives a game company value? Intellectual property, brand reputation, and unsold games. The most significant of these must be the game catalog intellectual property, giving the right to print and sell them for potential profit. There are just a few employees, so I can't see giving much additional value as an institution of creating future games. There may be more sources of value that I'm missing, but those seem to be the big ones.

Based on my familiarity with TMG's catalog, their games are good, but there aren't any blockbusters. Nothing selling in massive quantities. Their brand reputation, from my understanding as a customer, is as a small business that Kickstarts decent games reliably and successfully.

I don't even know where to start with estimating the value of each component to the company. Is the IP of something like Eminent Domain worth $5k or $50k? Based on the volumes they move, I'd have to think it's on the lower end. Say they have 24 games worth an average of $5k each, we're at $120k. Maybe I've made a low estimate, so let's even try the math at 24 games worth $50k each. I think that's a huge overestimate, but that's a total of $1.2M.

Hopefully someone with more experience is estimating value, but I can't imagine TMG as a company is worth anything approaching $1M, let alone $3M.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Van Zandt
United States
South Ogden
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
badge
PlayTMG.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I wish we could answer things here, but they can only be answered on the funding site (you can ask questions and see answers to others' down at the bottom of the page).

Though I do understand that guessing is fun too meeple
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Mindes
United States
Mountain Green
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
hair10 wrote:
RiffRaff14 wrote:

I'm actually not really sure what this is... I get that they are trying to raise money for the company, but I'm not quite sure how the "stock" works with this. How as an investor does one make money from this investment?

I've been looking at it trying to figure out the same.


For legal reasons I cannot answer these questions off of the equity crowdfunding website, however user Abraham asked this specific question. This link goes straight to the investor discussion.

https://app.microventures.com/crowdfunding/tasty-minstrel-ga...

Under general questions. If you have followup questions, then please ask on the portal as I would love to be able to answer them.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Mindes
United States
Mountain Green
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Herodotus Herodotus wrote:
hair10 wrote:
RiffRaff14 wrote:

I'm actually not really sure what this is... I get that they are trying to raise money for the company, but I'm not quite sure how the "stock" works with this. How as an investor does one make money from this investment?

I've been looking at it trying to figure out the same.


If you look at the "TMG Form C" under investment documents on the MicroVentures website, starting on page 24 there's a financial section. I'm no expert when it comes to finance, but I'm not an amateur either. And there are some...interesting...parts.

Of especial note: Distributions are not guaranteed, even if the company makes a spectacular profit (which I note from their own chart they operate in the red some months). "Shares" are not traded on the market, i.e. you won't be able to ring up your broker and sell your share in the company, and even if you could find a buyer, you're not permitted to sell except back to the company (which is not required to buy your share) or to an accredited investor (i.e. not your average BGGeeker). You do get voting rights...on a single matter: the liquidation of the company. As the Mindes family will have a majority of the shares, though, those rights don't matter. Crucially, the way I read the "Allocations" section, it sounds like operating losses can come directly from member's capital contributions.

In short: I wouldn't buy unless someone not affiliated with the company who knows a lot more about this than I do comes along and points out how I'm wrong.

Edit to add: by their own admission they've operated at a net loss for the past two years. -$4868 in 2015 and -$41,597 in 2016.


For legal reasons I cannot answer these questions off of the equity crowdfunding website, however user Josh asked a good question that leads into this under the financial questions area. This link goes straight to the investor discussion.

https://app.microventures.com/crowdfunding/tasty-minstrel-ga...

If you have followup questions, then please ask on the portal as I would love to be able to answer them.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Mindes
United States
Mountain Green
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
hair10 wrote:
Herodotus Herodotus wrote:
hair10 wrote:
RiffRaff14 wrote:

I'm actually not really sure what this is... I get that they are trying to raise money for the company, but I'm not quite sure how the "stock" works with this. How as an investor does one make money from this investment?

I've been looking at it trying to figure out the same.


If you look at the "TMG Form C" under investment documents on the MicroVentures website, starting on page 24 there's a financial section. I'm no expert when it comes to finance, but I'm not an amateur either. And there are some...interesting...parts.

Of especial note: Distributions are not guaranteed, even if the company makes a spectacular profit (which I note from their own chart they operate in the red some months). "Shares" are not traded on the market, i.e. you won't be able to ring up your broker and sell your share in the company, and even if you could find a buyer, you're not permitted to sell except back to the company (which is not required to buy your share) or to an accredited investor (i.e. not your average BGGeeker). You do get voting rights...on a single matter: the liquidation of the company. As the Mindes family will have a majority of the shares, though, those rights don't matter. Crucially, the way I read the "Allocations" section, it sounds like operating losses can come directly from member's capital contributions.

In short: I wouldn't buy unless someone not affiliated with the company who knows a lot more about this than I do comes along and points out how I'm wrong.

Edit to add: by their own admission they've operated at a net loss for the past two years. -$4868 in 2015 and -$41,597 in 2016.


Saw all that and, honestly, none of it really bothers me. They've reduced the amount of debt/losses considerably so it appears they're trending in the right direction. As for not having voting rights or selling the stock, neither really concern me. However, other than the "perks" listed on the page, I'd like to have some understanding of what my investment will (might) get me. Dividends? Profit sharing? (both assuming the company does well, obviously). Or do I just get a couple of games and a sweatshirt for my $1500 and the chance to be first to dump more money into it on future rounds of fund seeking? I don't see anything that really spells out what the options might be.


Please see Abraham's question under general topics in the investor discussion.

https://app.microventures.com/crowdfunding/tasty-minstrel-ga...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Mindes
United States
Mountain Green
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
hair10 wrote:
[q="Herodotus Herodotus"]
I would point out that you may have read the numbers backwards. Their net loss up almost 900% from 2015 to 2016 - the trend is in the wrong direction.

Yeah, I was only looking at their net income and not their debt they had accumulated.

The debt is addressed in answers to Josh and Juh

https://app.microventures.com/crowdfunding/tasty-minstrel-ga...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.