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878 Vikings: Invasions of England» Forums » Rules

Subject: Leaders and command decisions rss

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Bill H
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Perhaps this is a bit early for rules questions, and apologies if this is covered in the rules preview and I just missed it, but can a leader ever move himself out of a battle via a command decision result?

For example, if a leader only has 1 remaining unit on his card, and rolls a command decision, can he move to an adjacent friendly area with his last remaining unit, or would only the unit move and the leader be removed from the game?

Really looking forward to this game!
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Bill Buchanan
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doverboy wrote:
Perhaps this is a bit early for rules questions, and apologies if this is covered in the rules preview and I just missed it, but can a leader ever move himself out of a battle via a command decision result?

For example, if a leader only has 1 remaining unit on his card, and rolls a command decision, can he move to an adjacent friendly area with his last remaining unit, or would only the unit move and the leader be removed from the game?

Really looking forward to this game!


This is a good question. I don't see this covered in the draft rulebook posted on the kickstarter page.
 
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Chris
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I can't see how this could be the case. He doesn't actually exist in game. A leader is just a notional "container", A special status for an army. They don't fight at all, so to apply the result to them makes as little sense as being able to apply it to other cubes in a normal army.
 
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Bill Buchanan
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
I can't see how this could be the case. He doesn't actually exist in game. A leader is just a notional "container", A special status for an army. They don't fight at all, so to apply the result to them makes as little sense as being able to apply it to other cubes in a normal army.


I think I agree with this. Except they should make a mention of it in the rulebook, and explain what happens if you use command decisions for all remaining units in a leaders army.
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Chris
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WBuchanan wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
I can't see how this could be the case. He doesn't actually exist in game. A leader is just a notional "container", A special status for an army. They don't fight at all, so to apply the result to them makes as little sense as being able to apply it to other cubes in a normal army.


I think I agree with this. Expect they should make a mention of it in the rulebook, and explain what happens if you use command decisions for all remaining units in a leaders army.


Yes, that's maybe the same thing As OP asked but rearranged ... the leader should *probably* move with it's last unit, but it's not the leader doing any... leading..! That way round it does feel more ambiguous. But as above, it's all what the cubes do. The leader isn't rolling dice conceptually etc.
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Bill H
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
I can't see how this could be the case. He doesn't actually exist in game. A leader is just a notional "container", A special status for an army. They don't fight at all, so to apply the result to them makes as little sense as being able to apply it to other cubes in a normal army.


Interesting. I'm not sure how I feel about that notion though. I'm not saying you're incorrect, but why name the leaders and have them represented by a figure if they aren't part of the army they're representing? My way of thinking is that the "leader" is part of the actual army, in there battling with the rest of the troops. I suppose my disconnect from your explanation is that the leader is depicted as an actual named human figure, dressed up for the fight, implying (to me, anyway) they are part of the army.

That said, if your interpretation is correct I'll certainly adjust my interpretation and buy into it. So in the case I described, where there is 1 unit left in a leader's army and a command decision is rolled, if you choose to move the unit out to a friendly area, then the "container" is just removed from the game?
 
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Bill H
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
The leader isn't rolling dice conceptually etc.


Right, that I understand.

WBuchanan wrote:
I think I agree with this. Except they should make a mention of it in the rulebook, and explain what happens if you use command decisions for all remaining units in a leaders army.


That's what I was getting at, does the leader move with the last unit if that last unit rolls a command decision.
 
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Bill Buchanan
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doverboy wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
I can't see how this could be the case. He doesn't actually exist in game. A leader is just a notional "container", A special status for an army. They don't fight at all, so to apply the result to them makes as little sense as being able to apply it to other cubes in a normal army.


Interesting. I'm not sure how I feel about that notion though. I'm not saying you're incorrect, but why name the leaders and have them represented by a figure if they aren't part of the army they're representing? My way of thinking is that the "leader" is part of the actual army, in there battling with the rest of the troops. I suppose my disconnect from your explanation is that the leader is depicted as an actual named human figure, dressed up for the fight, implying (to me, anyway) they are part of the army.

That said, if your interpretation is correct I'll certainly adjust my interpretation and buy into it. So in the case I described, where there is 1 unit left in a leader's army and a command decision is rolled, if you choose to move the unit out to a friendly area, then the "container" is just removed from the game?


They need to be unique "figures" on the board/map because there will be multiple leaders and you need to quickly identify them. Also, leaders do have special rules as far as movement goes, therefore do provide an army with special benefit when present in an army.

Whether they intend leaders to have any further special function remains to be seen. It is still possible they unveil something further as far as mechanics are concerned.
 
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Chris
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doverboy wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
I can't see how this could be the case. He doesn't actually exist in game. A leader is just a notional "container", A special status for an army. They don't fight at all, so to apply the result to them makes as little sense as being able to apply it to other cubes in a normal army.


Interesting. I'm not sure how I feel about that notion though. I'm not saying you're incorrect, but why name the leaders and have them represented by a figure if they aren't part of the army they're representing? My way of thinking is that the "leader" is part of the actual army, in there battling with the rest of the troops. I suppose my disconnect from your explanation is that the leader is depicted as an actual named human figure, dressed up for the fight, implying (to me, anyway) they are part of the army.

That said, if your interpretation is correct I'll certainly adjust my interpretation and buy into it. So in the case I described, where there is 1 unit left in a leader's army and a command decision is rolled, if you choose to move the unit out to a friendly area, then the "container" is just removed from the game?


Well if he (or she!) moves with the last unit, then that's fine. I didn't get the impression that they were in mechanically in the combat, they are the standee and the card, not a cube. Indeed they couldn't be a cube, as they'd need to the the last of one specific type of cube, which is not the case either. So if the last cube leaves the card, they leave the game... So I guess they are standing on a hillside watching the battle and run off home if his army are killed? Doesn't sound very Viking warriory... maybe you can say that they are the increased powers of that army, after all, they are shown holding a flag, not a sword...
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Bill H
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I re-read my initial post, and I can see how it may have been misinterpreted. Sorry about that. I understand the leader doesn't roll any dice.

My question boils down to this: If a leader only has 1 remaining unit (or units) on his card, and the last remaining unit(s) roll command decision(s) and the decision is to vacate the area, can the leader move to an adjacent friendly area with his (or her!) last remaining unit(s), or would only the unit(s) move and the leader be removed from the game?
 
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Chris
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doverboy wrote:
I re-read my initial post, and I can see how it may have been misinterpreted. Sorry about that. I understand the leader doesn't roll any dice.

My question boils down to this: If a leader only has 1 remaining unit (or units) on his card, and the last remaining unit(s) roll command decision(s) and the decision is to vacate the area, can the leader move to an adjacent friendly area with his (or her!) last remaining unit(s), or would only the unit(s) move and the leader be removed from the game?


Yeah, that's the crux and all.

I vote NO. A command decision lets a player "move one of their own Units out of the current battle". Even if this is the last unit, I think that unit behaves the same as any other, and leaves the battle, without reference to the leader.

If that were not the case, I would expect that you'd never willingly go down fighting. You'd always nip out to safety if you could, right? Losing the leader should be a consequence of the last unit moving away, otherwise they board would be full of the buggers and they could keep coming back and back...
 
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Bill H
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
I vote NO. A command decision lets a player "move one of their own Units out of the current battle". Even if this is the last unit, I think that unit behaves the same as any other, and leaves the battle, without reference to the leader.

If that were not the case, I would expect that you'd never willingly go down fighting. You'd always nip out to safety if you could, right? Losing the leader should be a consequence of the last unit moving away, otherwise they board would be full of the buggers and they could keep coming back and back...


All good points. I hope there is an official ruling on this and it makes the final rule book.
 
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Tim Densham
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doverboy wrote:
I re-read my initial post, and I can see how it may have been misinterpreted. Sorry about that. I understand the leader doesn't roll any dice.

My question boils down to this: If a leader only has 1 remaining unit (or units) on his card, and the last remaining unit(s) roll command decision(s) and the decision is to vacate the area, can the leader move to an adjacent friendly area with his (or her!) last remaining unit(s), or would only the unit(s) move and the leader be removed from the game?


I'll ask Gunter, see what answer shakes out. Just don't expect it anytime soon, what with his first daughter born yesterday and all.
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Anton Nieuwkoop
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The gameplay video has given the answer to this:
https://youtu.be/wWnq_BY2iBQ?t=38m45s

So yes: A leader can move along with the last unit(s) on the leadercard if they use a command die.


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Niko
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antoi wrote:
The gameplay video has given the answer to this:
https://youtu.be/wWnq_BY2iBQ?t=38m45s

So yes: A leader can move along with the last unit(s) on the leadercard if they use a command die.
I'd still appreciate an official answer. All too often it turns out that the people doing the videos got a rule or two wrong...
 
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Tim Densham
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antoi wrote:
The gameplay video has given the answer to this:
https://youtu.be/wWnq_BY2iBQ?t=38m45s

So yes: A leader can move along with the last unit(s) on the leadercard if they use a command die.




Per Gunter,

As the last unit leaves on a command decision, the leader will follow. Anton is correct. Good discussion all.

Tim
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Niko
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Tim of Academy wrote:
antoi wrote:
The gameplay video has given the answer to this:
https://youtu.be/wWnq_BY2iBQ?t=38m45s

So yes: A leader can move along with the last unit(s) on the leadercard if they use a command die.




Per Gunter,

As the last unit leaves on a command decision, the leader will follow. Anton is correct. Good discussion all.

Tim
Thanks Tim!
 
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