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Subject: Has AN become more expensive than MTG? rss

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Steve S
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So previously I hadn't been a big fan of "card vs card" type games, other than a somewhat short time I played MTG back in the 90s, and mostly got out of it after deciding I didn't want to constantly dump money into a single game;
But lately I've sort of gotten sucked back in again by online implementations - namely HearthStone and possibly even more so Faeria (which probably play less than the other only because there is no phone version).
This has me considering trying to dip my toes back into the waters of one of the more popular "live" CCGs, and Netrunner has been on my radar pretty much since it came out as I both like the theme and it sounds like it has some interesting mechanisms that aren't usually seen elsewhere.

I also initially liked the idea of doing the update packs rather than boosters, as it seemed like doing that it would make it more likely to put players on equal ground.

But over time it looks like that may have changed - yes, I know if I manage to find a friend to play with just on our own the core box will work fine, however if I go out "into the wild" and play against others, it looks like there have been an epic ___load of update packs released over the past few years, and they're not that cheap - basically it kind of looks now like you're still buying booster packs, but now the booster packs cost $15+ a pop, on top of the $40 just to get the basic game.

MTG on the other hand, although it has a bad rap for being a money sucker, looks like you can get into it for under $15 to start if you want, and not only that the game stores around here actually host events for MTG unlike AN, which I've never seen a single event for in my area.

Or am I approaching this wrong?
 
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General Norris
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Those are the prices for a single 60-card deck: An average of 1200$. The average cost of a single card for most of those decks is higher than a whole datapack of Netrunner and each of these decks costs more that every single card ever released in Netrunner put together.

Magic is only cheap if you only play the cards nobody wants.
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Lieven De Puysseleir
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I think you're right.

ANR, SW and the other lcg's have become a real moneysink quite quickly. It's one of the reasons I stopped playing them, couldn't justify the cost/time ratio anymore.

But if you're going to play any one of them and you'll have the time to sink into it then the cost is less an issue.

Personally, I really love especially the starwars and netrunner lcg. Also played their antique ccg counterparts in the 90's.

Just check the cost/time ratio and also you could maybe find a good deal on the second hand market. Plenty of people step out because of these reasons.

just my 5c.
 
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Count Ringworm
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lievendp wrote:


Just check the cost/time ratio and also you could maybe find a good deal on the second hand market. Plenty of people step out because of these reasons.


This here. People are getting out of it all the time (the Mumbad cycle seems to have been the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back). You should be able to find a nice bulk collection at a cost far better than hunting all of it down yourself.

Be aware, though- the first two cycles (genesis and spin) are due to rotate out some time this year. They won't be legal for competitive play, but if you're just playing casually, there's some great cards in there.
 
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Derrick Billings
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The way to look at it is not Cost/Time in strict terms of what you spend versus how much you play, but what is your Cost Over Time? You can buy into Netrunner for $40 and play that to your heart's content. The data packs are $15 bucks, but they release a new one only about ever 4-5 weeks, and what can you do in MTG for fifteen dollars per month? And if you're inclined to pick up stuff from the back catalog, not only is everything fully disclosed and available at retail price, but you're under no obligation to buy packs that don't have cards you want.

I personally think Netrunner is a great deal, and you'll get much more bang for your buck with products that take 3-4 years to rotate (for those that do, others don't rotate) rather than spending too little to be competitive in MtG, on product that will rotate out in as little as a year or two.
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Epimer
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For about the cost of a MTG Standard deck, you can get every single deck that it's possible to build in Netrunner. The maintenance costs for keeping up with the game will be comparable to that of keeping your single expensive MTG deck up to date - but, again, that's for every Netrunner deck that can be made.
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CPBelt
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The current Kaladesh and Aether Revolt planeswalker decks are a blast to play! If you want to get into MtG casually, now is a great time. Some of the best casual cards are commons and uncommons, along with cheap rares. Hasbro made these sets in crazy numbers and designed them to allow easy entry for new players, so there is a lot of supply out there.

You can also play ANR pretty cheap, especially with Terminal Directive coming very soon. Then there ia Arkham Horror LCG... Oh my. We are spoiled with so many good card games, as my BGG Collection shows!

Play what you enjoy. If playing casually the cost is about the same.
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Lieven De Puysseleir
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The thing with netrunner and more of the lcg's vs magic the catering is that with MTG, (from my memory because I played up until the beginning of 2k somewhere) you'll probably have more of an idea of which deck you're going to build and just trade / buy for the specific cards than with netrunner or starwars lcg and hence for the lcg's you'll be more inclined to just get them all.

That's 180+ euro/dollar per year, not even counting the deluxe sets. In Belgium it's even more expensive.

Ok, that might not seem too much but still, it's about 3-4 other games per year (not even counting deluxe expansions) so it's not negligable imho.

Personally, it was worth it for me as long as I played one evening per week and the occasional tournament but when that waned and taken into accoutn the sheer amount of other amazing new games coming my way, I just had to cut it.

Still holding on to my collection (up until mumbay and around the same time for starwars lcg) because I hope to play it with my kids someday.
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Ryan Kelly
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Shadoglare wrote:
So previously I hadn't been a big fan of "card vs card" type games, other than a somewhat short time I played MTG back in the 90s, and mostly got out of it after deciding I didn't want to constantly dump money into a single game;
But lately I've sort of gotten sucked back in again by online implementations - namely HearthStone and possibly even more so Faeria (which probably play less than the other only because there is no phone version).
This has me considering trying to dip my toes back into the waters of one of the more popular "live" CCGs, and Netrunner has been on my radar pretty much since it came out as I both like the theme and it sounds like it has some interesting mechanisms that aren't usually seen elsewhere.

I also initially liked the idea of doing the update packs rather than boosters, as it seemed like doing that it would make it more likely to put players on equal ground.

But over time it looks like that may have changed - yes, I know if I manage to find a friend to play with just on our own the core box will work fine, however if I go out "into the wild" and play against others, it looks like there have been an epic ___load of update packs released over the past few years, and they're not that cheap - basically it kind of looks now like you're still buying booster packs, but now the booster packs cost $15+ a pop, on top of the $40 just to get the basic game.

MTG on the other hand, although it has a bad rap for being a money sucker, looks like you can get into it for under $15 to start if you want, and not only that the game stores around here actually host events for MTG unlike AN, which I've never seen a single event for in my area.

Or am I approaching this wrong?


I have to chime in here with the two words that I think best sum up the one, biggest reason to play any LCG over CCG's: NO CHASE.

Only thing that seems to be changing is the fire in your belly you thought you had at one time. Nothing wrong with that. Please don't take this as a criticism. But I have to believe that anyone who could possibly have any doubts as to the relatively low expense of LCG's versus TCG's hasn't been paying attention to what the secondary market has been doing in MTG lately.
 
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Steve S
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Well yeah, obviously I'm asking from the point of view of someone who isn't strongly familiar with the subject. As mentioned I haven't really looked this game genre in about 20 years or so.

OK so I get that with MTG if you're looking to put together pre-designed decks using cards from multiple releases over the years you might have to pay through the nose to buy those individual cards especially if you want to include a number of more rare/powerful cards - but can't you build a decent deck using currently available cards that won't cost you a fortune to put together?

Also with Netrunner do people tend to combine cards from all of the available sets or do most people tend to stick to cards released in individual "upgrade" packs?
 
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Epimer
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Shadoglare wrote:


Also with Netrunner do people tend to combine cards from all of the available sets or do most people tend to stick to cards released in individual "upgrade" packs?


The former. Individual packs aren't standalone purchases, they provide you with more cards to add into your available card pool.
 
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Brendan Riley
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It feels like there are two different conversations happening here. On the basic level, if you said, "I want to try out this game, what's the minimum` amount I can spend?" Then MTG wins at the $15 price point, But you can build several different decks using the Netrunner core box, so there's an argument that you get more play out of that. It also supplies cards for both sides.

If you're playing casually, you can just buy the boosters occasionally and play as you like.

Competitively, Netrunner is a way better deal.
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Justin
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Post-rotation, absent a living core set definition, I expect the value of rotated A:NR sets to approach $0.
 
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Roel van der Hoorn
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astroglide wrote:
Post-rotation, absent a living core set definition, I expect the value of rotated A:NR sets to approach $0.


Which is absolutely great for casual players, right? And you can still use those sets in draft play in your community.

I also presume some people will come up with a different format in which these sets are still legal, like the 1.1.1.1 format.
 
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Josh Aitken
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Unless you are playing kitchen table magic, Netrunner is going to come out cheaper.

The top 2 most competitive decks in Standard at Grand Prix Barcelona on March 12th were Mardu Agro and Copycat. Mardu Agro on average is $450 and Copycat is $280, although everything in CC is on the rise after its performance. Although we just had a B/R announcement pass with nothing, if it keeps putting up the numbers it has, it will get neutered in the next pass.

In Netrunner, you are also getting 2 decks to compete with, so to compare apples to apples, you have to double the price of the average deck.

The problem I see with the LCG model is the double edged sword that is fixed product release. On one hand, it's great that I know exactly what I am getting when I buy it. But on the other hand, it stops me from buying draft product that will be redundant, and gives newer players less incentive to buy products like Championship decks. They can buy a deck to play with (assuming it's still legal by the time it comes out), but if they start buying packs to fill out there collection, they end up with a lot of stuff that they dont need, and there is nothing they can do with it. If it was MtG, they could trade some of the stuff away. Now they're just stuck with it.
 
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Lyle McCracken
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wombat929 wrote:
It feels like there are two different conversations happening here. On the basic level, if you said, "I want to try out this game, what's the minimum` amount I can spend?" Then MTG wins at the $15 price point, But you can build several different decks using the Netrunner core box, so there's an argument that you get more play out of that. It also supplies cards for both sides.

If you're playing casually, you can just buy the boosters occasionally and play as you like.

Competitively, Netrunner is a way better deal.


Nailed it with this explanation.
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I've never understood anyone saying Netrunner is "the same" in cost as Magic.

As others are pointing out, out of the box, you have 2 sides to play as, one with 4 factions, the other with 3, and can make multiple decks. Assuming someone is paying MSRP, that's a lot of value for $40.

Good luck having that much variety in magic decks for $40. You could buy 2 dueling deck packs, but you're still way more limited in deck construction.

Sticking to the "big box" expansions is another great value that just can't be beat. $30 for major card pools for 2 factions. Try getting that kind of a deal out of $30 of magic.

Everytime I see this argument I just imagine someone is trying to shill hard for Wizards or something, I can't believe anyone would make this statement.

Just like you don't have to have a Tier 1 deck in magic (which others point out costs upwards of hundreds of dollars), you don't have to have every card in Netrunner.

And even then, just buying Core Set + 4 big expansions puts you in for a pretty insane amount of card pool for what, $160 MSRP (cheaper if you go Amazon), which can get you a deck legal in every tournament for Netrunner.

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