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Subject: Why does it cost so much? rss

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RJ
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With so little information (seemingly), can anyone give some insight as to why pre-ordering will cost $70? Are the components going to be high quality? Or, did I miss some early pre-order price point?
 
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https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1689636/pre-orders-are-now-...
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Martin Gallo
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As a guess I would say that it has to do with the fact that the game has parts and a box and that there are printers involved. There may even be people assembling the parts into the box. There may be shipping and warehousing involved.

Retail business is not just about selling games as there are all sorts of things that cost money.

One way to make a small fortune is to start with a large fortune and open a game company.
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RJ
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Snarky replies aside, thank you to the both of you. The linked thread brought me to the podcast and it elucidated everything clearly.
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Ola Mikael Hansson
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Rontuaru wrote:
Snarky replies aside, thank you to the both of you. The linked thread brought me to the podcast and it elucidated everything clearly.

Care to enlighten those of us who can't listen to podcasts? Apart from that (for me useless) link to the podcast, the rest of the thread left me just as clueless as I was before reading it.
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Chris
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unic wrote:
Rontuaru wrote:
Snarky replies aside, thank you to the both of you. The linked thread brought me to the podcast and it elucidated everything clearly.

Care to enlighten those of us who can't listen to podcasts? Apart from that (for me useless) link to the podcast, the rest of the thread left me just as clueless as I was before reading it.
Treefrog as a company has debts to clear.
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RJ
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unic wrote:
Rontuaru wrote:
Snarky replies aside, thank you to the both of you. The linked thread brought me to the podcast and it elucidated everything clearly.

Care to enlighten those of us who can't listen to podcasts? Apart from that (for me useless) link to the podcast, the rest of the thread left me just as clueless as I was before reading it.


The relevant context is that the podcast was last year, with heavycardboard interviewing Wallace about the upcoming "A Handful of Stars." His self-made Treefrog games cannot keep up with the fast pace of games chugged out by larger publishers and simultaneous new "hotness" on kickstarter drawing followers. As a result, this is his final Treefrog Games published title. He was going to use the funds raised from pre-orders to help make this game a reality.

To paraphrase Wallace, he candidly admitted that the online retailers are not the ones raising the price, but rather, he is. Not knocking him in any sense, it's just that he cannot keep up but it seems he wants to do one last 'swan song' of a game with his own publishing company before he shuts it down.
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Rontuaru wrote:
unic wrote:
Rontuaru wrote:
Snarky replies aside, thank you to the both of you. The linked thread brought me to the podcast and it elucidated everything clearly.

Care to enlighten those of us who can't listen to podcasts? Apart from that (for me useless) link to the podcast, the rest of the thread left me just as clueless as I was before reading it.


The relevant context is that the podcast was last year, with heavycardboard interviewing Wallace about the upcoming "A Handful of Stars." His self-made Treefrog games cannot keep up with the fast pace of games chugged out by larger publishers and simultaneous new "hotness" on kickstarter drawing followers. As a result, this is his final Treefrog Games published title. He was going to use the funds raised from pre-orders to help make this game a reality.

To paraphrase Wallace, he candidly admitted that the online retailers are not the ones raising the price, but rather, he is. Not knocking him in any sense, it's just that he cannot keep up but it seems he wants to do one last 'swan song' of a game with his own publishing company before he shuts it down.


Take note: the above is how you answer a question boys.
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Martin Gallo
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TheDarkKnight wrote:
Take note: the above is how you answer a question boys.
Unless you do not know the answer and are, quite literally, guessing.

Sheesh, some people might need to work on their senses of humor and perspective? Good thing we have people to tell us what to do, and how!
 
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I think he's stated that this is going to be a very small print run and therefore high up front costs that have to be paid for.
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Chris
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abonosky wrote:
I think he's stated that this is going to be a very small print run and therefore high up front costs that have to be paid for.
It's the same number as his previous runs, he just has outstanding commercial debts to try to pay off before closing the business officially.

TBF I'm happy enough with this, seeing it as oddly NOT paying for the game. Treefrog has done so so much for my love of the hobby, I'm OK knowing my money is going to that cause.
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
abonosky wrote:
I think he's stated that this is going to be a very small print run and therefore high up front costs that have to be paid for.
It's the same number as his previous runs, he just has outstanding commercial debts to try to pay off before closing the business officially.

TBF I'm happy enough with this, seeing it as oddly NOT paying for the game. Treefrog has done so so much for my love of the hobby, I'm OK knowing my money is going to that cause.


So agree. Wallace is my favourite designer. Paying a premium for hours and hours of more joy is fine with me. It's when I buy a hyped game to find that $50 was wasted as opposed to $100 and play it dozens of time. My gaming group is eagerly awaiting this!
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
abonosky wrote:
I think he's stated that this is going to be a very small print run and therefore high up front costs that have to be paid for.
It's the same number as his previous runs, he just has outstanding commercial debts to try to pay off before closing the business officially.

TBF I'm happy enough with this, seeing it as oddly NOT paying for the game. Treefrog has done so so much for my love of the hobby, I'm OK knowing my money is going to that cause.


Yes but his previous runs were very small compared to say CMON kickstarter games. Put it this way, I just looked how much it would be to make 100 7inch records and it would cost me $14 each without plastic covers and with only three color art. If I printed 10,000 it cost me around $3 each. If I am an indie record company printing 100 copies, I would have to charge $20 each just to cover my costs of printing and any other issues that come up and I would only cover my costs is if I sold all 100 copies. It made it not worth the risk of putting out my own 7 inch when I could release 100 CDs for around $1.75 a piece...yet no one wants to buy cds...frustrating. Same problem here. No hype, no marketing company, no kickstarter fronted cash, and no large guaranteed distribution means this game is about as close to DIY as it gets. That is why the price is high. And yes, Wallace's art, card and board quality, and rulebook pages (paper quality) are top notch.

If you look at the market place many of his treefrog games go for huge prices because they are out of print. I am not suggesting you gouge people but what I am suggesting is more than likely you will be able to sell the game if you don't like it. There are a few of his titles that didn't do well (Moongha Invaders could be bought on the cheap at coolstuff) but if you wait a few years, I am pretty confident even Moongha (which has two great games within the second edition) will start fetching higher prices.
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I know I'll be lambasted for this, but here it goes...

A business owner can't figure out how to compete in his chosen industry...so his answer is to price a game unreasonably high? Unless the game components are plated in Platinum, or has the scope (and pedigree) of Caverna, I can't see paying 80.00 for any game. If you chose to produce games as a career, maybe you should have given up when you failed to find a cost-efficient production line. No?

If you take a few paces back and look at this objectively you have to at least use common sense and exercise some caution.

The company cannot be competitive in it's chosen industry.

So we're closing shop.

Before we do, we're going to make one more game.

And we're going to charge a lot of money, and I the designer admit it's my choice to jack the price.

Moreover, you're going to pay me for the game before it's even made. And as I mentioned, we're closing shop because I can't find a way to make games/money.

...Even with a ten foot pole I'm not gonna touch it.




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Maddest Hatter wrote:
I know I'll be lambasted for this, but here it goes...

A business owner can't figure out how to compete in his chosen industry...so his answer is to price a game unreasonably high? Unless the game components are plated in Platinum, or has the scope (and pedigree) of Caverna, I can't see paying 80.00 for any game. If you chose to produce games as a career, maybe you should have given up when you failed to find a cost-efficient production line. No?

If you take a few paces back and look at this objectively you have to at least use common sense and exercise some caution.

The company cannot be competitive in it's chosen industry.

So we're closing shop.

Before we do, we're going to make one more game.

And we're going to charge a lot of money, and I the designer admit it's my choice to jack the price.

Moreover, you're going to pay me for the game before it's even made. And as I mentioned, we're closing shop because I can't find a way to make games/money.

...Even with a ten foot pole I'm not gonna touch it.






Would you rather find this information out before or after you paid for the game? At lease he is being upfront with his intentions, people have the information and they can decide from there.
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Mike Smith
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Maddest Hatter: we of course can sleep secure in the knowledge that the market must always be "right", that it guarantees a supply of quality games at low prices, and that talent is always royally served, and recompensed, by it. Wallace is acknowledged as being rather good at designing games, all is right with the market, and so he should be rolling in it without gouging his customers. Yes?
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Mike Smith
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Lets put that a different way: Wallace tried for many years to produce as an independent a string of interesting, highly personal games, with high quality artwork and decent production values. He succeeded hugely in "artistic" terms, despite not being a business expert, and despite the fact that he probably never made much money out of it. Are we the richer for the fact that he did this? Yes. Does the market function to reward the right people? No.
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