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Subject: Earth-Luna Lagrange point? rss

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Christian Holmes
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I am confused by this one point.

Most Lagrange points are "empty" circles, but the Earth-Luna L3 point is filled magenta, AND has a little red burst around it. I am having trouble finding why that is. In the rules it states that a Lagrange point is a hollow or filled circle. But it also says later that you must pay for a burn every time you enter a filled magenta circle.

Which rule applies to this, and what is the little burst triangles around it for?

I watched Rahdo's extended play through, and he paid a fuel when he entered that space as if it was a burn space. I realize it might have been a mistake, but wanted to know for sure.
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Frank Karinsky
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The Lagrange point with "red burst" is the "home orbit" for red faction's Bernal Stack (Q. BERNAL MODULE -> Q1)

And for the filled Lagrange point: "Turning requires a PIVOT in a Hohmann, but is free in a Lagrange point" therefore I think it cost you fuel to enter but you save one burn if you pivot at that Lagrange point.
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Dom Rougier
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Earth-Luna L3 is really three things at once - it's a burn, since it's a pink circle (and therefore costs fuel), it's a lagrange point, since it allows changing direction, and it's also the starting point for the Red bernal, if using the Bernal module.
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John Slater
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Don't all burn points allow changing direction for free (after you paid the cost to enter the spot)?
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Rus
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At L-points and burns, you turn for free. Basically, you only pay for turning at Hohmann intersections (just an intersection with no circle).

You still need to pay for entering any burn, l-point or not.
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Doug DeMoss
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Karinsky wrote:
The Lagrange point with "red burst" is the "home orbit" for red faction's Bernal Stack (Q. BERNAL MODULE -> Q1)

And for the filled Lagrange point: "Turning requires a PIVOT in a Hohmann, but is free in a Lagrange point" therefore I think it cost you fuel to enter but you save one burn if you pivot at that Lagrange point.


Wouldn't you save two burns, since it normally costs two for the pivot?
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Frank Karinsky
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demoss1 wrote:
Karinsky wrote:
The Lagrange point with "red burst" is the "home orbit" for red faction's Bernal Stack (Q. BERNAL MODULE -> Q1)

And for the filled Lagrange point: "Turning requires a PIVOT in a Hohmann, but is free in a Lagrange point" therefore I think it cost you fuel to enter but you save one burn if you pivot at that Lagrange point.


Wouldn't you save two burns, since it normally costs two for the pivot?
Yes, you save two for the pivot but it cost one burn to enter that Lagrange... that is what I was saying, sorry if my wording was confusing, my English skills are a bit rusty laugh
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Geoff Speare
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Piggybacking off of this since it's a related question and there's a nice image up above.

The space between Earth HEO and GEO is circular and not magenta, so I assume it's a Lagrange point? Ignoring pesky considerations like fuel and thrust, a rocket traveling from LEO could do enter HEO for 1 burn (and then change direction), enter this spot and change direction for free, then enter the landing burn for Luna and then land? The example in H9 of the rulebook stops in this space so as to switch thrusters; it's not clear if this is required to avoid a pivot or not.
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galfridus wrote:
Piggybacking off of this since it's a related question and there's a nice image up above.

The space between Earth HEO and GEO is circular and not magenta, so I assume it's a Lagrange point? Ignoring pesky considerations like fuel and thrust, a rocket traveling from LEO could do enter HEO for 1 burn (and then change direction), enter this spot and change direction for free, then enter the landing burn for Luna and then land? The example in H9 of the rulebook stops in this space so as to switch thrusters; it's not clear if this is required to avoid a pivot or not.


Thematically, it is not a Lagrange point.

Rules-wise, anything that's a circle has a free pivot.
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Colin Booth
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Are you sure about that? Last I looked radiation hazards don't count as L-Points for purposes of free turning.
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Geoff Speare
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3rd Edition rules B4 wrote:
The intersection between two routes is called a HOHMANN if the two lines touch, and a LAGRANGE POINT if it is marked by a hollow or filled circle.


Radiation spaces are circular, so I go with no pivot required. To me the weird thing is that the above rules term "Lagrange point" is different from the scientific definition (i.e., the ones actually labelled L1-L5 on the board) which is why I asked.

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Frank Karinsky
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galfridus wrote:
a rocket traveling from LEO could do enter HEO for 1 burn (and then change direction), enter this spot and change direction for free, then enter the landing burn for Luna and then land? The example in H9 of the rulebook stops in this space so as to switch thrusters; it's not clear if this is required to avoid a pivot or not.
IIRC it's a 3-days trip to the Moon so... why not? Needing 2 turns (years) as in H9 seems quite weird
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Frank Karinsky
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cathexis wrote:
Are you sure about that? Last I looked radiation hazards don't count as L-Points for purposes of free turning.

I just read about this topic in the reference guide:
Quote:
Lagrange Point:
(...)
Note that there are many circular spaces not on an intersection that are not technically Lagrange Points. These places (which include LEO, radiation spaces, and spaces on zone boundaries) nevertheless follow the rules for a Lagrange Point.
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Matt Watkins
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Karinsky wrote:
IIRC it's a 3-days trip to the Moon so... why not? Needing 2 turns (years) as in H9 seems quite weird :what:


This has always been a sticky point for me. I feel like it's thematically non-sensical to have to wait a turn to switch thrusters for landing.
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Colin Booth
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Karinsky wrote:
cathexis wrote:
Are you sure about that? Last I looked radiation hazards don't count as L-Points for purposes of free turning.

I just read about this topic in the reference guide:
Quote:
Lagrange Point:
(...)
Note that there are many circular spaces not on an intersection that are not technically Lagrange Points. These places (which include LEO, radiation spaces, and spaces on zone boundaries) nevertheless follow the rules for a Lagrange Point.

Thanks, I forgot the #2 rule for Sierra Madre Games rules texts: it's probably in the glossary.
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