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Subject: This game kicks my group ass to the point of no fun rss

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Simon-Pierre Belanger
Canada
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Hi,

I don't know what is wrong. Honestly, I think we are applying the rules to the letter. I've tried 3 times to win against the basic nemesis Rageborn. Once with a seasoned board gamer. Twice with my usual group of 4 including two seasoned players.

I've been using the "easiest" nemesis RageBorn. Tonight, I even used the beginners rules. RageBorn at 60 HP, the town at 35 and the players at 12.

Every time it has been a total disaster. It is like there is no way we ever had a chance. I won't be able to get the game back to the table with my usual group because they think the game is flawed. As a reference, we beat ghost story last week with ease.

There must be some rules everyone is not following correctly because when I read BGG, it seems like winning is the most trivial thing.

So by the time RageBorn has used all his lvl 1 nemesis cards, the town is bellow 10 HP in all sessions I have played. Making it a priority to destroy those relics that heal the town for 3 HP. But even then we never have the time to get strong enough before he summons minions and proceed into rage-burning the town to the ground.
One in my group said there probably was a very strict strategy that, if you were to adhere too, would get the job done. But he lost interest because if it is so, then the game to him would not be enjoyable because of the set pattern we would have to use. But even then he wasn't convinced there was a way to win.

It was that one-sided. There is so many ways the nemesis can screw us/town before we even muster the most basic of spells. I have to say I don't understand how people are winning while applying all the rules.
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Ethan Furman
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You are doing something wrong, but I can't tell what. Can you post a rough play-through of those first few turns?
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Daniel Blaze
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I agree. There's something you aren't doing right. Given the speed at which you lose, it sounds like it's probably a rules issue more than a strategic one.
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Joel Fox
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It does sounds like something is amiss... What is dealing so much damage to Gravehold with just level 1 cards? Do his minions survive for several rounds before you kill them?

Strategies are not strict, there is lots of room for creativity. I think you are either playing incorrectly or perhaps really new to deck-builders?

Watching the Rahdo run-through or something might help you identify what's going wrong (although I have not watched it myself).
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Patrik Severinsson
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Seems like you are probably playing something wrong. Having the town consistently go below 10hp after the level 1 cards seems odd.
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Norman L.
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it helps if each player takes on a specific role for the duration of the game and focuses only on that role. In your case, maybe try 2 players that do damage, 1 that heals, and one that helps the others with cards. For that to work, everyone needs to agree and understand that winning is the goal (team effort). If the other players are more self-interested and just want to do what they want to do, then I can understand why you keep losing.

I'm not sure of your market setup but is it 4 spells, 3 gems, and 2 relics?

I play solo and can beat Rageborne with just 2 mages. It would probably help for you and your group to get better acquainted with each card so you can discover certain syngergies/combos that will help you win.

Also, are you (and your group) focusing on thinning out your deck? To get the cards you want you'll need to destroy a lot of the starting cards (crystal and spark) once you've replaced them with better gems and spells.
Aside from that, don't get greedy and think you have to buy items from the market every time, using aether to buy charges for your character can be even more beneficial due to their special ability.

Also, make sure your nemesis deck is constructed correctly. If you are using all of the basic nemesis cards then you are doing it wrong.

I think your group is too quick to dismiss the game. It really is a group effort, so any one with an ego is bound to cause your group to fail.


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Kevin 'qxc' Riley
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As others have posted, the intro scenario is not designed to be this difficult which suggests you're missing some rule(s). I suggest either posting a turn by turn of how you're playing - probably just the nemesis side of things is fine since the deck building is more straight forward or to check out one of many play-throughs/videos available online.

Hope you give it another try, the game you're describing is not at all Aeon's End. AE neither requires an extremely strict strategy nor is it supposed to be so hard that it is discouraging, even to experienced players.
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Name Surname
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Here is a video of slickerdrips playing against Rageborne solo (2 handed).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVxBBTH72ak

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Abel Kim
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If I were to guess what went wrong, it is probably

a. he is making Rageborne strike whenever an unleash happens instead of placing a token on the nemesis
b. he is not removing fury tokens whenever Rageborn strikes
c. his group do not coordinate/make questionable buys

seeing how the op has won a game of Ghost stories, it is most likely to be option a he is messing up with and maybe option b, as Provoker is an annoying minion bound to get hits in.
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Boo da
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Mareg wrote:
Hi,

I don't know what is wrong. Honestly, I think we are applying the rules to the letter. I've tried 3 times to win against the basic nemesis Rageborn. Once with a seasoned board gamer. Twice with my usual group of 4 including two seasoned players.

I've been using the "easiest" nemesis RageBorn. Tonight, I even used the beginners rules. RageBorn at 60 HP, the town at 35 and the players at 12.

Every time it has been a total disaster. It is like there is no way we ever had a chance. I won't be able to get the game back to the table with my usual group because they think the game is flawed. As a reference, we beat ghost story last week with ease.

There must be some rules everyone is not following correctly because when I read BGG, it seems like winning is the most trivial thing.

So by the time RageBorn has used all his lvl 1 nemesis cards, the town is bellow 10 HP in all sessions I have played. Making it a priority to destroy those relics that heal the town for 3 HP. But even then we never have the time to get strong enough before he summons minions and proceed into rage-burning the town to the ground.
One in my group said there probably was a very strict strategy that, if you were to adhere too, would get the job done. But he lost interest because if it is so, then the game to him would not be enjoyable because of the set pattern we would have to use. But even then he wasn't convinced there was a way to win.

It was that one-sided. There is so many ways the nemesis can screw us/town before we even muster the most basic of spells. I have to say I don't understand how people are winning while applying all the rules.


1) "I think we're playing the rules correctly, so everyone else must be playing incorrectly." lol.

2)"One in my group said there probably was a very strict strategy that, if you were to adhere too, would get the job done." Nope, people play on random market and there's two ways of winning. The closest thing to a "strict" strategy is to have different players focus on different spells/tactics like one person focusing on support and one focusing on damage. Even that doesn't necessarily need to happen every game.

3) There's only 1 generally unavoidable damage to gravehold card in the level 1 cards and a minion that damages gravehold. Rageborne himself has 1 unavoidable strike and 1 minion that does damage to gravehold.

If you get REALLY unlucky with the card draws, then yea I think you might drop below 10hp on gravehold after level 1 (Haze Spewer does 9 damage, Slaughter does 3 damage, Rageborne strikes for 5 damage, Provoker hits for 3 damage, possibly another strike from unleashes).

But to have that happen 3 times is pretty rare. What I think is probably wrong is that you're striking every time there's an unleash. You should watch a video on how to play.
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Will Bachman
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I'll throw a couple theories out there in hopes that it helps.

When I first played, I misunderstood the power cards and applied their effects each turn until the power tokens were spent. Those are supposed to be timers, and when the last one is removed, the effect is applied.

Other than that, I really think it has to be Rageborne striking too often, that's the only way I could see Gravehold being down to 10 so soon. When there are four rage tokens or more on his card, you draw a card from the strike deck, do its effect and then shuffle it back in. Afterwards, remove three rage tokens. Unless you have a minion causing Rageborne to persistently unleash, he shouldn't be striking very often.
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Michael Steinbach
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I started to play this great game yesterday. My first shot playing the recommended initial setup on "normal", I lost because of the turn order in the final round. Played with two hands - solo. Had Rageborn down to 8.

Because I had so much fun, I took the game to my gaming group. I played a game with one other gamer with no experience with Aeon. We were able to defeat Rageborn, but the town was down to five points.

Finally in the same group with different mages and one change in the supply, we went up against the carapace queen - and won. Again, it was extremely close since the next swarm would have lost us the game.

Conclusion: I don't believe it is easy, however, I cannot agree that the scenarios are too tough.

You do realize that the persistent effects of the Nemesis only occur on the Nemesis turns and NOT on every turn?
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Simon-Pierre Belanger
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Hello again,

First thanks for all the replies. Really shows how strong the community is on BGG.

Also need to apologies for sounding like I knew all the rules and the mindset that some people might not play correctly to win. I didn't want to sound like that. The fact is, I red the rule book thoroughly after my first lost to see if I missed something. I also watched videos before my first play and another one extensively after my first lost.


This morning I played solo 2 breach mages. I won, barely. And with the beginner rules. Gravehold was close to being destroyed once. I think I would have lost it if not for the additional 5 HP that the beginner rule gives it. I got to the lvl 3 nemesis cards. But not too deep in it. What I understood from that play-through is that the game is hard but "fair". Meaning you have to be great at deck-building. I'm now convinced I applied all the rules correctly in all of my previous loss. I just got a bit unlucky with the lvl 1 nemesis cards. One in particular does something very bad if two nemesis turn order cards have been played that round. And I think we were unlucky with the strike deck doing 5 damages to the city. Also, I think my group focused too much on building a great economy and the minions survived for too long.

I still think it is a great game. I agree that my friend who was narrow minded about developing a singular winning strategy didn't understand the variability of the marked building combined with the breach mages choice and the nemesis choice. This game I think has endless replay value. To his credit, I only played with the default setup the game tells you to play first. We didn't randomise the market or choose breach mages outside of the 4 suggested. Also, I think the game is harder with 4 players. Yes there is a bigger lvl 1 nemesis deck. But the mages take much longer to build up their deck. Not sure it is well balanced for 4 players.

I'll have a hard time getting the game back to my main group. We really got annihilated. Oh well, I guess I'm a little down since I really really enjoy the game. Maybe I'll convince them to try again with the carapace queen and a good market with lot of synergy.

Thanks all for all the replies. I really appreciate it.
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Abel Kim
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yeah. each nemesis tend to have different ways of dealing with them. In general, it is good for some people to get the cheaper spells to deal with early minions and other people to build up their economy for the late game. Since your group seemed to have trouble dealing with rageborne, Imma give you some tips for carapace queen as you need to fight her differently from rageborne.

Monstrous inferno is pretty good, as well as a Brama.keep the number of husks as low as possible, and dont be afraid to try to run her deck out.
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Boo da
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4 players is more unforgiving for sure. Because each player has less turns per nemesis turns, it's more punishing than at 2 mages if you don't plan out your decks well. Fans of traditional deck building games tend to build up economy too much.

As an anecdote, I lost my first two games against Rageborne. I won my 3rd game with 4 players fairly easily, probably because one of my team members decided to just build a lot of cheap spells early and go spellslinging. Not saying this is the only way to win but having damage early definitely helps.

Carapace queen is probably the best example of a nemesis that you want damage early because you really don't want husks to build up too much.
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Ethan Furman
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Mareg wrote:
Also need to apologies for sounding like I knew all the rules and the mindset that some people might not play correctly to win.


No worries. Just realize that the last fellow who came in saying he knew all the rules was wrong. When he eventually shared what he was actually doing we were able to point out his mistake.

Mareg wrote:

What I understood from that play-through is that the game is hard but "fair". Meaning you have to be great at deck-building.


I don't think so. I think it means you have to realize you are playing against an aggressive opponent. If all four of you (or even just two of you) are busy building your decks and not meeting the threats the nemesis is throwing at you you are going to be annihilated.
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Crazed Survivor
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Mareg wrote:

What I understood from that play-through is that the game is hard but "fair". Meaning you have to be great at deck-building.


Not with deckbuilding, but with priorities. You have to know when to stop building economy, when to start dealing damage, when to stop focusing on minions and start taking the Nemesis down, when to buy charges, when to help allies, when to let a player get exhausted, and so on.

You can't prevent anything, and you'll have to make out which of the two evils is the lesser yourself more often than not.

Building your deck is important but there is much more to the game than just that.

I'm honestly surprised that you have so much trouble defeating Rageborne, as I only lose against him when playing with a single character. At first I thought you made him Strike each turn, regardless of his Fury Tokens. But I've never played 4 players.

Against Rageborne:
- Don't let him Unleash.
- Start building big damaging combos as quick as you can.
- Take out minions fast, but don't focus on them. Once his around 30 life, focus on bringing him down if you can.
- Let your mages take damage. Especially if you can heal them. Try and spare Gravehold as much as possible.
- Discard as many Power cards as you can.
- WORK TOGETHER. Heal your allies, make them draw cards, etc.
- If you have Adelheim, use his ability a lot!
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Dylan Thurston
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Just in case people come to this thread looking for things they might be doing wrong, let me mention another rules mistake that makes things way more difficult: Cards with "Power X" don't activate immediately; you have a certain number of turns before they activate.
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Kevin 'qxc' Riley
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dthurston wrote:
Just in case people come to this thread looking for things they might be doing wrong, let me mention another rules mistake that makes things way more difficult: Cards with "Power X" don't activate immediately; you have a certain number of turns before they activate.


More than one playtesters has made the mistake of thinking that power cards resolve *every* turn you remove a power counter from them.

#brutal
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Ron Hatch
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For what it's worth, so far my group has found the Carapace Queen to be a bit easier than Rageborne. I suspect it's just a matter of the strategies that we naturally gravitated towards happen to be better against her.

So for anyone else that's having this problem, trying some of the other Nemeses (yes, that's the correct plural) with fairly low difficulty ratings may help.
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