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Subject: Files Removed rss

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Carl White
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Good news and bad news.

the good news is that I am in discussion with publishers to professionally produce Star Trek the Dice Game, so fingers crossed we may see a lovely shiny version in the not too distant future. The bad news is that they have advised that freely available content should be taken down.

As a result I've removed the cards and board from the files section, and removed the Artscow links. Apologies to those who didn't get a chance to print themselves a copy, but with luck there will be an even lovelier version for sale soon.
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Ron
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carlwhite wrote:
Apologies to those who didn't get a chance to print themselves a copy, but with luck there will be an even lovelier version for sale soon.

As I never was much of a PnP guy, I'm looking forward to such a version. Hopefully licensed and not re-themed meeple
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David Griffin
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carlwhite wrote:
Good news and bad news.

the good news is that I am in discussion with publishers to professionally produce Star Trek the Dice Game, so fingers crossed we may see a lovely shiny version in the not too distant future. The bad news is that they have advised that freely available content should be taken down.

As a result I've removed the cards and board from the files section, and removed the Artscow links. Apologies to those who didn't get a chance to print themselves a copy, but with luck there will be an even lovelier version for sale soon.


Carl has asked me to remove the travel version as well. I think this is kind of sad. I want Carl to get this published of course, but it's a shame the PnP stuff is being taken down.
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Andrew Berzley
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carlwhite wrote:
Good news and bad news.

the good news is that I am in discussion with publishers to professionally produce Star Trek the Dice Game, so fingers crossed we may see a lovely shiny version in the not too distant future. The bad news is that they have advised that freely available content should be taken down.

As a result I've removed the cards and board from the files section, and removed the Artscow links. Apologies to those who didn't get a chance to print themselves a copy, but with luck there will be an even lovelier version for sale soon.


Hey Carl - I just ordered a print of this through ArtsCow this morning. Do you think I should cancel my order? I would much rather have a production value and support the designer/publisher anyway.
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Mark
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carbon_dragon wrote:
carlwhite wrote:
Good news and bad news.

the good news is that I am in discussion with publishers to professionally produce Star Trek the Dice Game, so fingers crossed we may see a lovely shiny version in the not too distant future. The bad news is that they have advised that freely available content should be taken down.

As a result I've removed the cards and board from the files section, and removed the Artscow links. Apologies to those who didn't get a chance to print themselves a copy, but with luck there will be an even lovelier version for sale soon.


Carl has asked me to remove the travel version as well. I think this is kind of sad. I want Carl to get this published of course, but it's a shame the PnP stuff is being taken down.


Wow ... what timing! I just put in an order yesterday for a box and board from the guys at Print N Play.
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Gina Laurie
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Congratulations, Carl. Even though I have a nice professionally printed copy, I'll still be first in line for a shiny copy, too. This way, more fans can get in on the fun.
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Joseph Propati
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That IS good news and bad news but more so than you think....cry
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Andrew Berzley
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Ok - I canceled my order! Best of luck with the publishers Carl!
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Hernan Ruiz Camauer
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Good luck, Carl. Doesn't sound like a sure thing, but I hope it gets made in a form you'd be proud of.
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Martin Gallo
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This is one of those games that deserves to be published. Best wishes!
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Luke Phillips
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Any sense of whether or not you'll get to use the IP? Or will it end up being skinned as "Space Trip" with "Captain Kirp" and "Speck"
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Hernan Ruiz Camauer
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Good question!
 
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John "Omega" Williams
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Here we go again...

I really hate when designers do this.

So another PNP game people are forced to pass around copies of in private to get.
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John "Omega" Williams
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lukerazor wrote:
Any sense of whether or not you'll get to use the IP? Or will it end up being skinned as "Space Trip" with "Captain Kirp" and "Speck" :)


Allmost certainly a name or even theme change. The ST license is not cheap.

Lots of options to retheme it to though.
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Jeremy Scranton
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Congratulations on the potential deal.

Is there any where that we can get the rules still??? I have an order en route from artscow and just received a set of custom dice. Unfortunately, I hadn't downloaded the rules yet.
 
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Tony Go
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You shouldn't have removed the files just because a publisher advised it.

Then again, I also think there are other things you should have done regarding the development of this game.

whistle
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John "Omega" Williams
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Horror Leader wrote:
You shouldn't have removed the files just because a publisher advised it.

Then again, I also think there are other things you should have done regarding the development of this game.

:whistle:


Oft if the publisher requires the files being pulled then the designer may not have much recourse but to knuckle under and do as ordered. Or there may be the fear that if they refuse then the game wont be picked up.

Other times its just the designer being greedy.

I think its great that the game got picked up for publication. But this damn yank the PNP files routine in the end both accomplishes nothing more then forcing the files to be passed around in private and can end up garnering the game or designer a bad rep if things go particularly badly.

To the designer. Id suggest thinking on some possible rethemes now if you or the publisher havent allready. From experience with licensing... Chances of actually getting the ST license are pretty low.

You could just rename the ship, crew, etc. Or could do a total retheme. High Seas, Jungle Explorers, etc.
 
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Ron
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Omega2064 wrote:
You could just rename the ship, crew, etc. Or could do a total retheme. High Seas, Jungle Explorers, etc.

Which would also retheme my interest in the game ... soblue
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Neil Edmonds
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I haven't played the game myself, but I learned about it on the recent BGG awards page. Congratulations and great work on your design!

I'm happy the game is getting published. As far as lamenting the loss of a PnP title, to be fair, it's a game based on an unlicensed intellectual property. I'm just glad the thread didn't start with, "Paramount's lawyers told me to take the files down, and now BGG is investigating other Star Trek related files."

Another Games Workshop-style legal tussle for the admins would have a chilling effect on BGG.
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Tony Go
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Designers have plenty of sway in the designer/publisher relationship. Making compromises and reasonable request are totally normal. If you're worried about getting published at all, find a different publisher who is more flexible. Or else think again about why you're designing games? To make money? They do whatever a publisher says. To share a fun game idea? Well then a free PnP makes a lot of sense no?

The ideal of the latter is that, with a free PnP version available, you need to elevate the commercial version to give consumers a reason to upgrade. This makes the core game better and everyone wins.

With Deep Space D-6 I kept all those PnP available but the retail version has things the PnP is missing, and I hope those are enough to entice people to buy the full game.

--

Now this is probably not the place for this, but I will say that Star Trek: The Dice Game, being a game largely based on my design... I think it's great that Carl was able to expand upon it and make a game that others could enjoy for free. Though similar to DSD6, they provide different experiences. I was never contacted about this game and the only real indication of DSD6's influence is a small sentence in the community wiki.

The conditions which pertain to reimplementation of game mechanics is not one I attempt to resolve, however, if I were to be contacted regarding a game being published so mechanically similar to my own design (and I do not imply ownership over dice rolling and assignment), I would be less enthusiastic about that.

Ultimately I think it's great whenever a PnP becomes a published game, but I think it's important to remember that the BGG community is relatively small and even tiny actions done in the name of 'business' have a large impact on individuals.
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John "Omega" Williams
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PzVIE wrote:
Omega2064 wrote:
You could just rename the ship, crew, etc. Or could do a total retheme. High Seas, Jungle Explorers, etc.

Which would also retheme my interest in the game ... soblue


Retheme it to managing a rock band? cool

Charlie Brown?

ia ia Cthulhu? sauron

oooh! I know! ZOMBIES! Its not like the market isnt so oversaturated it hurts. yuk





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John "Omega" Williams
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Horror Leader wrote:
The ideal of the latter is that, with a free PnP version available, you need to elevate the commercial version to give consumers a reason to upgrade. This makes the core game better and everyone wins.


You dont exen need that. Plenty of people just arent good at PNPing and a actual print version is a godsend to them. Or they lack the components. Or even lack access to a printer in some cases. And of course everyone unaware or uninterested in PNP.
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Hernan Ruiz Camauer
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I seem to recall this sort of thing being really well handled when D-Day Dice was picked up for publication. The original PNP files were left up, but the publisher and designer developed the heck out of the base game and had was a very successful Kickstarter. In the end, the PNP files only served as a tiny introduction into what effectively became an entire game system.

Everyone won. No one was pissed.

At least, that's how I remember it.
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David Hoffman
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heruca wrote:
I seem to recall this sort of thing being really well handled when D-Day Dice was picked up for publication. The original PNP files were left up, but the publisher and designer developed the heck out of the base game and had was a very successful Kickstarter. In the end, the PNP files only served as a tiny introduction into what effectively became an entire game system.

Everyone won. No one was pissed.

At least, that's how I remember it.


Well, for a little while, at least . . .
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Ken Grazier
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Got emails that my decks were shipped from Artscow... Talk about timing!

Congrats on getting it to a publisher. If you need more playtesters / editors / whatever else, I'd love to volunteer.
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