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Subject: So a certainly interesting Biblical interpretation from Erick Erickson rss

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Claire Anderson
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So uhm, wtf?
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Clairebot wrote:


So uhm, wtf?


That dude is still alive?
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Sickening.
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Clairebot wrote:


So uhm, wtf?


Christianity is, because of its origins but later adoption by the state (and not just any state) a mixture of what we crudely today call left and right. That shows up in things like the meek will inherit the earth and servants obey your master. (And many more things.)

That continued through things like emancipation (where there were Christians prominently on both sides) and to today. Today it shows up in attempts to graft modern assumptions of, for example, equality, onto texts that just don't support it, and on attempts to reconcile a devil take the hindmost social attitude onto texts that suggest less harsh social attitudes. This looks remarkably like the latter (though I don't know who the author is).

To know exactly what the original text (without getting into an argument on that) meant would need a fine - and unbiased - detail of translation. And then would probably fail. (Last time someone brought something similar up I looked at tens of translations of a verse, and sometimes it was hard to tell it was the same verse.)

And I doubt that scholarly analysis was done here.
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James King
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Clairebot wrote:


So uhm, wtf?

It's a a more ironic, Dominionism-driven revisionist take on Biblical scripture. After all, since they believe in an End-Times redistribution of wealth in which their lackeys in control of the government would seize the wealth of "the wicked", Dominionists have a very dour view of poverty. When it comes to legislation meant to combat or overcome poverty, Dominionists are the ones most likely to oppose it by saying, "We've always had the poor and will continue to have the poor" as if poverty was a Godsend of a condition to poor people.

On the other hand, Dominionists' prosperity-gospel notions have some very godawful twists.


> Excerpts from the March 9, 2017 Right Wing Watch news story by Kyle Mantyla entitled:

Dominionist "Prophet" Cindy Jacobs Proclaims: "God Wants Christians To Be Rich So Jews Become Jealous And Convert To Christianity!"



Last month, “respected prophet” Cindy Jacobs preached at a church in New Jersey where she prophesied that God wants Christians to be rich so that there will be a “great harvest” of Jewish conversions when they see their Christian neighbors becoming “profoundly wealthy.”

“What the Jews have, we have,” Jacobs proclaimed. “However, we have more when we’re in Christ because the Holy Spirit is inside us, empowering us to do the good works we’re called to do.”

“I want to say to you,” she continued, “that one of the things I believe that’s going to bring a great harvest of Jews is the Christians becoming so profoundly wealthy … that it’s going to make them jealous. The wealth and the riches that we’re able to obtain is going to make them jealous.”

“Do you think our poverty is going to make a Jew jealous?” she asked. “Come off it! No, we are meant to prosper. Why? Because they understand, in their culture, that obedience to God brings blessings.”


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Wendell
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Click thru for an interesting thread inspired by Erickson's nasty, unchristian little comment.
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Christopher Dearlove
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wifwendell wrote:


Click thru for an interesting thread inspired by Erickson's nasty, unchristian little comment.


Except it's not an unChristian comment. Even the first tweet in the link you recommended for comments is someone saying he's walked out of many churches saying that. Of course there are also many churches not saying that. But to exclude those you don't like is the poster child for No True Scotsman. It's a strand of Christianity like it or not.

But nasty, yes, that one you can have.
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James King
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Dearlove wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
Click thru for an interesting thread inspired by Erickson's nasty, unchristian little comment.

Except it's not an unChristian comment. Even the first tweet in the link you recommended for comments is someone saying he's walked out of many churches saying that. Of course there are also many churches not saying that. But to exclude those you don't like is the poster child for No True Scotsman. It's a strand of Christianity like it or not.

No, Dominionism is NOT a "strand of Christianity".

Indeed, Dominionism is NOT Christianity at all.

Rather, Dominionism is an End-Times cult that selectively gloms off of Christianity and Prosperity Gospel while injecting whole new twisted interpretations of Biblical scripture.


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ShreveportLAGamer wrote:


Dearlove wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
Click thru for an interesting thread inspired by Erickson's nasty, unchristian little comment.

Except it's not an unChristian comment. Even the first tweet in the link you recommended for comments is someone saying he's walked out of many churches saying that. Of course there are also many churches not saying that. But to exclude those you don't like is the poster child for No True Scotsman. It's a strand of Christianity like it or not.

No, Dominionism is NOT a "strand of Christianity".

Indeed, Dominionism is NOT Christianity at all.

Rather, Dominionism is an End-Times cult that selectively gloms off of Christianity and Prosperity Gospel while injecting whole new twisted interpretations of Biblical scripture.


There have been plenty of Christian end time cults too.

Really, by the time you've excluded those you don't like, and whoever it was recently claimed Catholics weren't Christians, plus someone else was excluding anyone who was accepting gay marriage, there aren't many Christians left.
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Dearlove wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
Dearlove wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
Click thru for an interesting thread inspired by Erickson's nasty, unchristian little comment.

Except it's not an unChristian comment. Even the first tweet in the link you recommended for comments is someone saying he's walked out of many churches saying that. Of course there are also many churches not saying that. But to exclude those you don't like is the poster child for No True Scotsman. It's a strand of Christianity like it or not.

No, Dominionism is NOT a "strand of Christianity".

Indeed, Dominionism is NOT Christianity at all.

Rather, Dominionism is an End-Times cult that selectively gloms off of Christianity and Prosperity Gospel while injecting whole new twisted interpretations of Biblical scripture.

There have been plenty of Christian end time cults too.

No, there have been End-Time cults which merely glommed off of certain tenets of certain denominations and introduced their own twisted takes on the scripture.

Comparatively speaking, although a mouse or rat may take up residence in a cookie jar, that doesn't make it a cookie any more than an End-Times cultist claiming to be a Christian just because his cult invokes certain Christian practices, tenets, and/or themes.


Dearlove wrote:
Really, by the time you've excluded those you don't like, and whoever it was recently claimed Catholics weren't Christians, plus someone else was excluding anyone who was accepting gay marriage, there aren't many Christians left.

And you couldn't possibly have been more disingenuous as to make such a broadly general cop-out of an allegation as that.


 
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Tall_Walt wrote:

Jesus took Paul Ryan's advice and read a little Ayn Rand.















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lotus dweller
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As tempting as it is to define Christianity in ways that helps my arguments I have come to the sad conclusion that, similar to pain, anyone identifying as Christian can claim, for themself, anything to be Christianity.

We do get to use adjectives however.
So "a thick-shake-phile Christian" would be one who calls themself Christian on the basis of loving thickshakes.
A money-obessed, Armegedon-promoting, snake-oil-sales-person, commercialised Christian is another possibility.

etc
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G Rowls
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American Christian definition - a person who follows the teachings of Christ except for when they are inconvenient or run contary to their other beliefs.

Synonym hypocrite.
 
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lotus dweller
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growlley wrote:
American Christian definition - a person who follows the teachings of Christ except for when they are inconvenient or run contary to their other beliefs.

Synonym hypocrite.

Yes it is nice to think that.
But there are Christians here on RSP who, at the very least, talk something quite different to the picture you paint.
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Pinook wrote:
growlley wrote:
American Christian definition - a person who follows the teachings of Christ except for when they are inconvenient or run contary to their other beliefs.

Synonym hypocrite.

Yes it is nice to think that.
But there are Christians here on RSP who, at the very least, talk something quite different to the picture you paint.


But it's just so very handy, and makes things so very simple, to drop large groups of people into the one undifferentiated bucket. After all, it allows you to just stop thinking about them as individual people, and utter some rather stupid slurs. I understand that this can be quite satisfying.

shake

So Growlley - apart from the degree of outrageous and vile calumny, what exactly is the difference between your disgusting generalisation and, for example, the disgusting generalisations that were slopped about by Hyperbolus?
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G Rowls
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Well I guess that depends on you, after all if thats what you believe your never going to change your mind are you?

From my point of view all I believe I need is patience and to live long enough and time will prove me right and therefore unlike Hype I don't need to invest the energy in hate. I can make a judgement over their own actions.

Speaking of hyprocriscy where was this righteous anger against the threa d "religous people only which is worse ...". Some sweeping generalisations there to! HUGGGGEEE silence over 'slurs' there.

EDIT However you are correct my definition was inaccurate I missed a word out who professes to follow ...
 
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growlley wrote:
Well I guess that depends on you, after all if thats what you believe your never going to change your mind are you?

From my point of view all I believe I need is patience and to live long enough and time will prove me right and therefore unlike Hype I don't need to invest the energy in hate. I can make a judgement over their own actions.


Except it seems you do. You never miss the chance to wheel out some sort of gross generalisation, usually as a complete non sequitur.

Quote:

Speaking of hyprocriscy where was this righteous anger against the threa d "religous people only which is worse ...". Some sweeping generalisations there to! HUGGGGEEE silence over 'slurs' there.


Ah, you think that everyone reads every thread, do you? And you think that somehow a lack of criticism over there makes your behaviour here okay?
 
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How in the context of this thread is it non sequitur? Don't like what the bible states and you claim is the literal word of God because it doesn't suit your political beliefs - redefine the meaning.

Resorting to personal attacks now are we? Oh #but just because I didn't call out that bad behaviour doesn't ...' never made no pretence on where I stand on this issue - so whilst there are many things I can be accused off not being consistent where I stand regarding Christanity isn't one of them.

If you (if you do in fact profess to be one ) can hold and sprout your nonesense then why is it any different if I do just because it doesn't agee with your beliefs?
 
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JasonJ0 wrote:
Pinook wrote:
growlley wrote:
American Christian definition - a person who follows the teachings of Christ except for when they are inconvenient or run contary to their other beliefs.

Synonym hypocrite.

Yes it is nice to think that.
But there are Christians here on RSP who, at the very least, talk something quite different to the picture you paint.


But it's just so very handy, and makes things so very simple, to drop large groups of people into the one undifferentiated bucket. After all, it allows you to just stop thinking about them as individual people, and utter some rather stupid slurs. I understand that this can be quite satisfying.

shake

So Growlley - apart from the degree of outrageous and vile calumny, what exactly is the difference between your disgusting generalisation and, for example, the disgusting generalisations that were slopped about by Hyperbolus?


Isn't one's faith a personal matter? What does it matter what other's think of one's beliefs? That is just ego and attempting to defend an idealogy/institution.

And trying to conflate these opinions with hyperbolus/jeremy/wytefang/tstone is just being disingenuous... because they are alike in kind only (criticisms), but are quite different in tone.

It is like the inability to separate toxic from not-toxic comments. Some just want to add them to the same scorecard, but the judges disagree.

 
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darthhugo wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
Pinook wrote:
growlley wrote:
American Christian definition - a person who follows the teachings of Christ except for when they are inconvenient or run contary to their other beliefs.

Synonym hypocrite.

Yes it is nice to think that.
But there are Christians here on RSP who, at the very least, talk something quite different to the picture you paint.


But it's just so very handy, and makes things so very simple, to drop large groups of people into the one undifferentiated bucket. After all, it allows you to just stop thinking about them as individual people, and utter some rather stupid slurs. I understand that this can be quite satisfying.

shake

So Growlley - apart from the degree of outrageous and vile calumny, what exactly is the difference between your disgusting generalisation and, for example, the disgusting generalisations that were slopped about by Hyperbolus?


Isn't one's faith a personal matter? What does it matter what other's think of one's beliefs? That is just ego and attempting to defend an idealogy/institution.

And trying to conflate these opinions with hyperbolus/jeremy/wytefang/tstone is just being disingenuous... because they are alike in kind only (criticisms), but are quite different in tone.

It is like the inability to separate toxic from not-toxic comments. Some just want to add them to the same scorecard, but the judges disagree.



Well damn, you just made Chin's point for him. I hereby apologise, Chin.

The tone doesn't matter - the damned generalisation that paints all American Christians the same way (badly, as it happens) does. Bigotry, pure and simple.
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ah so only christians are allowed to be bigots because they have faith?

And if you want to call me a bigot have the courage of your convictions to do it directly - ie you are a bigot instead of tje generalisations you objected to before.
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JasonJ0 wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
Pinook wrote:
growlley wrote:
American Christian definition - a person who follows the teachings of Christ except for when they are inconvenient or run contary to their other beliefs.

Synonym hypocrite.

Yes it is nice to think that.
But there are Christians here on RSP who, at the very least, talk something quite different to the picture you paint.


But it's just so very handy, and makes things so very simple, to drop large groups of people into the one undifferentiated bucket. After all, it allows you to just stop thinking about them as individual people, and utter some rather stupid slurs. I understand that this can be quite satisfying.

shake

So Growlley - apart from the degree of outrageous and vile calumny, what exactly is the difference between your disgusting generalisation and, for example, the disgusting generalisations that were slopped about by Hyperbolus?


Isn't one's faith a personal matter? What does it matter what other's think of one's beliefs? That is just ego and attempting to defend an idealogy/institution.

And trying to conflate these opinions with hyperbolus/jeremy/wytefang/tstone is just being disingenuous... because they are alike in kind only (criticisms), but are quite different in tone.

It is like the inability to separate toxic from not-toxic comments. Some just want to add them to the same scorecard, but the judges disagree.



Well damn, you just made Chin's point for him. I hereby apologise, Chin.

The tone doesn't matter - the damned generalisation that paints all American Christians the same way (badly, as it happens) does. Bigotry, pure and simple.


Lost stream due to throwback reference that is no longer referenced.


 
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I think the main problem is that "fake christians" (or as I like to call them "small "c" christians") seem to dominate the airwaves to give a rather appalling view of Christianity, and by that I mean the actual words of The Christ. Forgetting things like his preaching on love, inclusion, etc. His rather obvious disdain for the wealthy always seems to be overlooked as well. True followers probably go unheard, because he also told them to not brag about their good deeds as well (See the parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee)
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Kumitedad wrote:
I think the main problem is that "fake christians" (or as I like to call them "small "c" christians") seem to dominate the airwaves to give a rather appalling view of Christianity, and by that I mean the actual words of The Christ. Forgetting things like his preaching on love, inclusion, etc. His rather obvious disdain for the wealthy always seems to be overlooked as well. True followers probably go unheard, because he also told them to not brag about their good deeds as well (See the parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee)

Dominionists believe that they're the only true Christians and that one of their main End-Times objectives is to use the government to seize the wealth of "the Wicked" and to effect an "End-Time Redistribution of Wealth". They believe that their leaders in government and society will serve as the new "kings" and "priests" of God's Kingom on Earth.

Dominionism is essentially a theocracy, a marriage of politics and extremist fundamentalism. By their reckoning, Dominionist "Christians" prosper and become the "priests" and "kings" and then they exact retribution in monetary terms, sacking the wealth and property of their political enemies (i.e. anybody who doesn't buy into Dominionism).

Ted Cruz's father, Rafael, and others have been preaching this stuff for years.


> Excerpts from the October 1, 2013 Huffington Post column by Morgan Guyton, director of the New Orleans, Louisiana Wesley Foundation (which is a campus-outreach organization of the Methodist Church):

The Theology of Government Shutdown: Christian Dominionism


Rev. Rafael Cruz

The theological ethos of (Texas Republican U.S. Senator Ted Cruz's father) Rafael Cruz's vision is Christian Dominionism: He talks about preaching a "message of Dominion" that all Christians have received an "anointing as kings."

I watched a sermon he preached on August 26, 2012 at the New Beginnings megachurch in Irving, Texas, led by Christian Zionist charismatic pastor Larry Huch. Huch incidentally had a very interesting prophecy to share when he introduced Cruz to preach:

Larry Hutch wrote:


We've been doing this series here that God laid on my heart: Getting to the top and staying there. A message for us as individuals, the kingdom of God, but also for America. It's not enough to get there. We need to stay there. It's not a coincidence that in a few weeks, we go into what's called in the Bible Rosh Hashanad [sic]... It will be the beginning of the spiritual year 2012. The number 12 means divine government. That God will begin to rule and reign. Not Wall Street, not Washington, God's people and His kingdom will begin to rule and reign. I know that's why God got Rafael's son elected, Ted Cruz the next senator. But here's the exciting thing: The rabbinical teaching is... that in a few weeks begins that year 2012 and that this will begin what we call the End-Time Transfer of Wealth. And that when these Gentiles begin to receive this blessing, they will never go back financially through the valley again. They will grow and grow and grow. It's said this way: that God is looking at the church and everyone in it and deciding in the next three and a half years who will be his bankers. And the ones that say here I am Lord, you can trust me, we will become so blessed that we will usher in the coming of the Messiah.


So it sounds like we're entering into the age where the Christians (who give faithfully) are going to get all the money through the "End-Time Transfer of Wealth." Isn't the title of that sermon series just awesome? "Getting to the Top and Staying There"! It was a packed house. I wonder how many other apocalyptic prosperity gospel megachurches are packing their houses by preaching sermon series about getting to the top and staying there.

Rafael Cruz's primary text for his sermon was Revelation 1:5-6, which says: "To Him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by His blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve His God and Father -- to Him be glory and power for ever and ever!"

In Rafael Cruz's translation of the Bible, it says "kings and priests" instead of "a kingdom and priests." In the Greek, the word is basileian (accusative singular) and no manuscript variants are indicated, but never mind that.

Rafael Cruz shares that two types of people were anointed in the Old Testament, Kings and Priests:

Rafael Cruz wrote:


Priests were anointed primarily to minister the glory of God. They were anointed to pray for the people, to offer sacrifices, to care for the temple, to be God's representatives before the people... Kings were anointed to take dominion. Kings were anointed to take dominion, to go to war, win the war, and bring the spoils of war to Priests so the work of the kingdom of God could be accomplished. The King needed the blessing of the priest in order to be successful in battle... The Priest also needed for the King to be successful in battle because the Priest needed the spoils of war in order to repair the temple, in order to carry out the ministry that God had entrusted him.


What is so remarkable about this rendering of the relationship between kings and priests in the Old Testament is that God expressly forbade the Israelites from going to war for spoils. It is "truthiness" applied to Biblical interpretation. Well, the priests had expenses to pay in the temple, and the kings went to war. God anointed both of them. That must mean that the kings went to war to pay for the expenses in the temple.






The seamless move that Cruz makes without any justification is to say that because kings and priests were anointed in the Old Testament, that means there are two kinds of Christians today: Kings and Priests.

Forget about the body of Christ and all the spiritual gifts identified in 1 Corinthians 12. Forget Jesus' exhortation in Mark 10 not to be like the Gentile princes but to be servants instead of kings. Rafael Cruz decries the way that churches have neglected their members' kingly anointing:

Rafael Cruz wrote:


Our churches unfortunately are very focused on only one of these annointings and that is on the priestly anointing... Those of you who think you don't have the anointing to teach the word of God, to be teaching Sunday school, you're second class citizens. And so you begin to lead frustrated lives... The majority of you... your anointing... is an anointing as king. God has given you an anointing to go to the battlefield. And what's the battlefield? The marketplace. To go to the marketplace and occupy the land. To go to the marketplace and take dominion.


So, to summarize this logic expounded upon by Rafael Cruz in his sermon: God anoints Priests to work in the church directly and Kings to go out into the marketplace to conquer, plunder, and bring back the spoils to the Church. The reason that governmental regulation has to disappear from the marketplace is in order to make it completely available to the plunder of Christian "kings" who will accomplish the "End-Time Transfer of Wealth." Then "God's bankers" will usher in the "Coming of the Messiah." In essence, the government is being shut down so that God's bankers can bring Jesus back.





 
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