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Subject: Surveyor rss

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Chris Heap Senhouse
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Somerville
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Does the "Build -4" bonus count towards the cost of a colony when you use his other ability to spend gold instead of a good on a colony?

Chris
 
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Gustav W
Sweden
Lund
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Tough question, I'm leaning towards that any build expertise would work. You are building a colony after all.

For reference:

 
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Tim Neppel
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This is a good question, but I would actually lean towards NO.

Here's the reasoning:

A colony costs 6 goods, no gold. Build -X reduces gold cost, so straight up, it obviously does not apply.

The Surveyor POWER lets you "SUBSTITUTE IN" 8 gold for a good. The colony is not now costing gold... you are using a POWER off the Surveyor. The gold is used IN PLACE of the good, therefore the cost of a colony is still 6 goods. Build -X would therefore still not apply.

Another way of looking at it... BUILD -X only discounts the gold cost of structures... it cannot discount A POWER of an Advisor.

 
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J Kaemmer
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Iowa City
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I'm with Tim on this. I doubt the ability can be discounted.
 
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Chris Willott
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That's my feeling, too.
 
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Becq
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Cerritos
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I don't think there's an official answer to this. If there was, I suspect it would be as Tim stated. That said, we played it as Gustav indicated in our campaign. The reasoning is actually similar to Tim's except for timing -- we decided that the substitution happened when establishing the cost (which the discount would then modify) rather than when paying the established cost (which would be after the discount couldn't be applied).

Frankly, I think that either is "fair", and also that the Surveyor was tough enough to pay for most of the time that allowing the discount wasn't unreasonable.

Note also that *most* (but not all) advisors have powers that stack in some way (often in terms of applying to two actions for the same guild), and the only way the surveyor's powers can stack is if the discount applies, since both powers apply to the build action.

Might be worth making an inquiry, though, if anyone has a group that can't agree.
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Darren Nakamura
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Columbus
Mississippi
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http://www.destructoid.com/author.phtml?a=1364
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Just thinking about relative strength, I would guess the discount can be applied.

Otherwise, the Surveyor is a 5 gold/2 reputation advisor who has one expensive/situational ability OR a decent discount for something else. Like Becq, I could see this one going either way, but I'd personally rule the discount can be applied and move on. It might even make him worthwhile if he got another -4 Build on there, meaning you could construct a colony with just five goods instead of six.
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Chris Willott
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Becq's answer is also reasonable. Particularly at the 2-rep level, advisors tend to have stacking abilities (with the exception of the Lord -- even the Politician's and Noble's specializations and abilities complement each other).
 
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Ian Liddle
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Sandpoint
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Our group said yes / stacked, and it's been fine. There's only so many colonies to build, after all, so he's pretty far from OP even with multiple trainers.
 
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Colin Marsh
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Portland
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ahh, get it off.. get it... GET IT OFF!!
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ahh, get it off.. get it... GET IT OFF!!
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i would confidently say no. colonies don't cost money so there's nothing to discount. the 8 gold saves you the trouble of upgrading your holds to transport 6 goods.

Build -4 is a nice discount by itself and he has two upgrade spots - very nice advisor.

a +1 to hold upgrade costs 10 money - that makes 8 a reasonable deal to me. i'll say this. if i could have back the two game end upgrades i made to hold i'd LOVE that.
 
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