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Subject: Why so expensive? rss

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Ralph Meleti
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So bought the core game and 1 expansion but just can't keep wondering to myself why does this game seem so expensive in terms of content compared to other offerings, eg for example FFG and CMON games?

I feel like I'm paying more for a sexy collection piece of board game and not actually for the game itself, I'm talking both about the amount of playable content and minis that come with this game.

For example, Imperial Assault expansions, X-Wing expansions, it seems they offer more in terms of added playable content and minis. at relatively cheaper price point to Conan's, there's a few extra cards, an extra skirmish of some kind. While Yogah of Yag expansion I get gets me one larger sized mini and 1 hero sheet card. No items cards, an extra scenario etc.

I know there's a community to create content, but from paying perspective, it seems I'm not getting much content for what I pay for

Amy I only one who thinks this way and do you why know this game and it's expansions just seems pricier than similar genre games?
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J P
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Just so you know, Monolith has released more scenarios for the add-ons, which you might not be aware of. Asmodee hasn't been keeping the retail public updated about this sort of thing. You can find them here:

http://www.monolithedition.com/conan-en/scenarios/

There's one for the Crossbowmen, one for Yogah of Yag, one for Kushite Witch Hunters, and one that features both Yogah and the Witch Hunters. Also note that you have to click several times to get deep enough to the actual scenarios, which should be 2 page PDFs.

EDIT: Here's links directly to the scenarios:

One for The Crossbowmen:
http://www.monolithedition.com/download/scenarios/web/001-Sc...

One for Yogah of Yag:
http://www.monolithedition.com/download/scenarios/web/003-Sc...

One for the Kushite Witch Hunters:
http://www.monolithedition.com/download/scenarios/web/004-Sc...

and one featuring both Yogah of Yag and The Kushite Witch Hunters:
http://www.monolithedition.com/download/scenarios/web/002-Sc...
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Chris Hoisington
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Tom Zsolt
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An additional 2 scenarios have been created. One For Baal Pteor and the other for the Sabertooth Tiger.

Here is the link to all the downloadable scenarios: http://www.monolithedition.com/conan-en/scenarios/.
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Alvin Lo
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All the new scenario created required Crossbowmen, Yogah of Yag, Kushite Witch Hunters. It still didn't answer why the game is so expensive. And the Baal Pteor and the Sabertooth Tiger are KS, so the OP cannot even use the scenario.
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Max Maloney
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XTrueFinale wrote:
So bought the core game and 1 expansion but just can't keep wondering to myself why does this game seem so expensive in terms of content compared to other offerings, eg for example FFG and CMON games?

I guess I haven't done a side-by-side figure count, but Conan seems to have a comparable amount of stuff to $100 FFG and CMON games.
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Ralph Meleti
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Well thanks for the info, without including a printout of the scenarios in the expansions or some kind of info about it, how is an average Joe suppose to know about the existence of these scenarios?

PS: I wish they have a filter system or kind of tag on each of their scenarios what expansions you need before clicking them individually and reading into them. Eg. Core updated scenario, blah blah expansions required etc.
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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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Dormammu wrote:
XTrueFinale wrote:
So bought the core game and 1 expansion but just can't keep wondering to myself why does this game seem so expensive in terms of content compared to other offerings, eg for example FFG and CMON games?

I guess I haven't done a side-by-side figure count, but Conan seems to have a comparable amount of stuff to $100 FFG and CMON games.

I'm fairly sure there is more stuff in a Conan retail box that in an FFG or CMON retail box.
Anyway, what's important IMO is how the game suits your tastes.
You don't measure fun in kilos of plastic or cardboard (though in Conan you have a large amount of both).
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Vince De Zutter
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Roolz wrote:
I'm fairly sure there is more stuff in a Conan retail box that in an FFG or CMON retail box.


Conan retail has 55 mobs, 5 monsters, 4 leaders, 6 allies and 4 heroes. That's 74 minis. The retail box has 55 cards.

Zombicide: Black Plague, which is 20$ MSRP less, has 35 walkers, 14 runners, 14 fatties, an abomination, a necro and 6 heroes. That's 71 minis. It also has 125 cards.

So yes, Conan has more minis, but not anything you'd consider worth the 20% increase in price. I think the big "issue" for Conan lies in the huge box, which is also a factor in shipping costs next to weight.
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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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The higher number of unique sculpts might have an influence too, as well as the tiles and the huge boards.
Anyway, given the choice between playing Conan or ZC, I'd choose Conan anytime (my fun X2 is worth a price X1.2)
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Ralph Meleti
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For example

Conan: Yogah of Yag Expansion 21.29 (USD)
- one large hero and character sheet

Star Wars Imperial Assault: Bantha Rider Villain Pack 14.99
- one large size mini with character cards, skirmish and sidequest mission paper

Conan: Dice Pack 8.49
- 6 dice, 2 of each colour

Star Wars Imperial Assault Dice Pack 8.99
- 11 dice, 2 colour of each except 1 of the least used one

At that price point of the dice, one would of thought Conan's dice were Chessex stylish grade or some kind of deluxe fancy design style dice, but they're just plain solid coloured plastic dice.

Though I would say Conan's miniatures are of higher quality to FFG's (probably because it published by CMON)
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J P
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XTrueFinale wrote:


Though I would say Conan's miniatures are of higher quality to FFG's (probably because it published by CMON)



I've heard this before and am not sure where it comes from. Conan has nothing to do with CMON. Look at the box. It's published by Monolith and distributed (in North America) by Asmodee. CMON is not, and never was, involved.
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gary gee
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DancingFool wrote:
XTrueFinale wrote:


Though I would say Conan's miniatures are of higher quality to FFG's (probably because it published by CMON)



I've heard this before and am not sure where it comes from. Conan has nothing to do with CMON. Look at the box. It's published by Monolith and distributed (in North America) by Asmodee. CMON is not, and never was, involved.
although CMON minis are pretty good..the ones in the conan game are much more detailed higher quality.
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Vince De Zutter
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Roolz wrote:
The higher number of unique sculpts might have an influence too, as well as the tiles and the huge boards.
Anyway, given the choice between playing Conan or ZC, I'd choose Conan anytime (my fun X2 is worth a price X1.2)


There's "only" a difference of 3 minis in the box, and 3 extra different sculpts. While I know unique sculpts are probably the most expensive thing in board game production, it's hardly a significant number.

If every CMON game can stay sub 100€ here, Conan really has no reason to be at 120€ retail price. If a Barbarian pledge was only 90$ (so about 87€), retail should've been fine at 99€. That would still mean retail has a 10-15% price increase compared to the Kickstarter. CMON pretty much keeps their Kickstarter prices for retail and just removes the stretch goals.

It's a good game, I love it to death, but it's expensive. And I see no reason why it has to be. And as mentioned, the expansions are pretty damn expensive too. The crossbowmen cost me €30 here - for 10 figures with 1 unique sculpt. I can get any Zombicide: Black Plague expansion pack for that money, which will have 1. more minis, 2. more unique sculpts or 3. both.
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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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Vinceness wrote:
It's a good game, I love it to death, but it's expensive. And I see no reason why it has to be.

Oh, there can be many reasons.
The retail price of a thing doesn't simply boil down to the kilos of material.
This is true for basically all manufactured products.

Some examples from the top of my head, that can apply to boardgames:

- Manufacturing costs. If I'm correct, CMON have interests in their miniature manufacturer, which means they might have some kind of discount. Also, when you have large and recurring production runs (like CMON), it gives both economies of scale and room for negociation.
However, impact of manufacturing cost is IMO negligible compared to what follows hereunder...

- Pricing policy. A publisher can sell its game (to the distributor) at "no profit" margin. Just to help build up the user base and bring people to your next KS (much more profitable than retail).

- Distributor charges. Each intermediate between the publisher and the final user (gamer) adds a huge amount of cost. If I'm correct, CMON are both publisher and distributor. Monolith is only publisher.

- There are probalby more factors that I don't know of or haven't though about. I'm not working in the boardgame industry.
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Vince De Zutter
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Roolz wrote:
- There are probalby more factors that I don't know of or haven't though about. I'm not working in the boardgame industry.


Well, sure, there's no arguing your points. I'm pretty sure CMON gets all kinds of discounts because they're a much more known name in the industry and Monolith is just starting out. That wasn't entirely my point, however.

My point is that all these costs (distributors, manufacturers, ...) were also included in the cost for the Barbarian Pledge, which was priced pretty mildly (perhaps even too mild). The jump from the "retail pledge with stretch goals" to the retail version of Conan went up with ~33%. For other comparable kickstarters, we see the "basic" pledge level and the retail game being pretty much priced similarly.

When they started the Kickstarter, they must have had information for their Barbarian pledge costs (then it would've been the regular retail box) and determined that if they sold it at the price of 90$ minus shipping, they would be able to make it work. That or they undercut their own product before it was made, which is bad for business. Most companies would even increase their overheads to take into account the stretch goal production costs.

So again, my main concern with the retail price: why is it 1/3 more expensive than the Barbarian pledge? Did they undercut the Kickstarter price to generate more sales? Did they make a bad deal with Asmodee? Did the amount of stretch goals they had to design bleed their funding faster than they anticipated? Somewhere between Kickstarter and retail, Monolith went from "this box should be about 90$" to "this box should be about 120$" - why?

Don't get me wrong, I spent the money on the King Pledge and a few add-ons and I don't regret a penny of it. But if you'd ask me if I'd buy the retail box for 120€, I'm honestly not very sure.
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C B
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XTrueFinale wrote:
For example

Conan: Yogah of Yag Expansion 21.29 (USD)
- one large hero and character sheet

Star Wars Imperial Assault: Bantha Rider Villain Pack 14.99
- one large size mini with character cards, skirmish and sidequest mission paper

Conan: Dice Pack 8.49
- 6 dice, 2 of each colour

Star Wars Imperial Assault Dice Pack 8.99
- 11 dice, 2 colour of each except 1 of the least used one

At that price point of the dice, one would of thought Conan's dice were Chessex stylish grade or some kind of deluxe fancy design style dice, but they're just plain solid coloured plastic dice.

Though I would say Conan's miniatures are of higher quality to FFG's (probably because it published by CMON)

Where do you see those prices? Retail for Bantha Rider is $19.99 and $9.99 for the IA dice. I have a FLGS where I can get Bantha size packs for $17.99 and the dice for $8.99, but your $14.99 is crazy low.
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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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Vinceness wrote:
So again, my main concern with the retail price: why is it 1/3 more expensive than the Barbarian pledge?

Easy.
As a rule of thumb, the "retail FLGS price" of any given game is about 2 times the publisher's cost, if I remember correctly (+100%). For "cheap to make" games (cards games for example), it's much more.
That's mostly due to intermediates.
KS is direct sales from the publisher. You don't add distributors margin, retailer's margin, etc. You only add shipping (that you add anyway for retail). That's why KS prices are lower, and that's why you get tons of extras. +30% on retail vs KS is pretty small, IMO.
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Vince De Zutter
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Roolz wrote:
KS is direct sales from the publisher. You don't add distributors margin, retailer's margin, etc. You only add shipping (that you add anyway for retail). That's why KS prices are lower, and that's why you get tons of extras. +30% on retail vs KS is pretty small, IMO.


Ah well, I've probably been spoiled by the CMONs of this world, then. I was unaware the 30% increase from Kickstarter was deemed normal.
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mark prichard
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You know I agee with the original author of this thread. The Conan base game and expansions are a bit on the expensive side. The Core game does have alot of figures,so I don't feel like it is a total rip off. However, the expansions are not worth the price and are a rip off. Other games with expansions give you more figures, cards and sometimes additional scenarios for a lower price. While the Conan expansion only give you a figure or figures with no additional cards or even a scenario for a higher price.

Unfortunelty, I will not be buying anymore expansions for this game unless I can find it second hand. I was very disappointed.
 
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Stephan Beal
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XTrueFinale wrote:
So bought the core game and 1 expansion but just can't keep wondering to myself why does this game seem so expensive in terms of content compared to other offerings, eg for example FFG and CMON games?


Nobody's yet mentioned licensing costs. Conan is an old franchise (older than Star Wars) and companies making products for it have licensing fees.

Compare with the Ghostbusters board game, which was initially priced at 80 Euros yet had notably poorer component quality than most 40-euro FFG games. Why? Licensing costs.
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Vince De Zutter
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sgbeal wrote:
Nobody's yet mentioned licensing costs. Conan is an old franchise (older than Star Wars) and companies making products for it have licensing fees.

Compare with the Ghostbusters board game, which was initially priced at 80 Euros yet had notably poorer component quality than most 40-euro FFG games. Why? Licensing costs.


I know it's not fair to compare to FFG because it's a bigger company, but Imperial Assault and Descent are priced exactly the same way, despite Star Wars having more hype than Conan and being a much, much more mainstream IP. Also, it's owned by Disney, so I can't imagine it would be cheaper than Conan. Of course this is speculation, so I could be wrong and Conan could have a more expensive licensing fee.

Also, that Ghostbusters game was just a cheap cash grab, I wouldn't blame that entirely on licensing fees.
 
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