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Subject: SPOILER: Box 4 Raiding Question rss

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Charles Waterman
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
What happens to a player who raids Ker attempting to conquer it, but takes damage without sinking?

A) How much enmity does that player have to put on Ker? One? Zero?

B) Does a player get one glory for attempting the raid without sinking? I assume this isn't the intent, since there are no sites to raid on Ker, so the only way to raid Ker successfully is to conquer it?

On the other hand, it seems the current consensus here is that **docks** may be raided for glory even if there are no upgrades of that color available as plunder. This might imply that glory is available for raiding a province even when no plunder is available there?


 
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Chris Willott
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That is in no way a consensus. The officialest ruling that I can recall is that you can only get glory if you take home plunder. If you "succeed" without succeeding, you don't actually get glory for it. (But you don't have to rebuild your ship from scratch! I think the consensus was that docks could be raided "for kicks" even with no matching upgrades -- but I disagree with that, too.) You could always send a geekmail to robdaviau. He's pretty good at replying.
 
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Becq
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It's official that success in a raid requires you to have enough successes and pay enough enmity tokens to satisfy a plunder value. If you don't, then the raid fails and you gain no glory. As Chris said, it's not clear whether you need to actually benefit. (Ie, it may or may not be that you can raid a docks, leave enmity behind, but choose not to take an upgrade, possibly because none was available.)

As to your question,
Spoiler (click to reveal)
If you fail to get the necessary 6 successes to conquer Ker, you can still choose another plunder option, such as (for example) a field -- if so, score a glory and place enmity as normal. If you choose not to (or can't) plunder, you fail to raid and gain no glory (but leave no enmity).

I don't have the card in front of me and it's been a while -- the Ker side (as opposed to the "colony formerly known as Ker" side) does have a field, doesn't it?

Frankly, if the poor raider failed that badly, I'd probably let them raid any site on the island. I figure since it's all the same controller, it's all one region until the colony is conquered. But that would be a house rule, and not official.
 
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Charles Waterman
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Becq wrote:
It's official that success in a raid requires you to have enough successes and pay enough enmity tokens to satisfy a plunder value. If you don't, then the raid fails and you gain no glory. As Chris said, it's not clear whether you need to actually benefit. (Ie, it may or may not be that you can raid a docks, leave enmity behind, but choose not to take an upgrade, possibly because none was available.)

As to your question,
Spoiler (click to reveal)
If you fail to get the necessary 6 successes to conquer Ker, you can still choose another plunder option, such as (for example) a field -- if so, score a glory and place enmity as normal. If you choose not to (or can't) plunder, you fail to raid and gain no glory (but leave no enmity).

I don't have the card in front of me and it's been a while -- the Ker side (as opposed to the "colony formerly known as Ker" side) does have a field, doesn't it?

Frankly, if the poor raider failed that badly, I'd probably let them raid any site on the island. I figure since it's all the same controller, it's all one region until the colony is conquered. But that would be a house rule, and not official.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
Thanks Becq! There are **no** sites to be raided on the "Ker" side of the colony card. The sites only appear on the other side of the colony card. That's why I was asking.

I like your house rule and I'm going to suggest it to the others. If they don't agree, what would you do then?
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Honestly, even with that house rule, I can't imagine anybody taking it. It just increases enmity on Patmos, which is the exact opposite thing you'd want if you still want to conquer Ker. Implement it if you want, but your player may still rather just take zero glory and leave zero enmity.
 
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Nathanaƫl Dufour
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Dexter345 wrote:
Honestly, even with that house rule, I can't imagine anybody taking it. It just increases enmity on Patmos, which is the exact opposite thing you'd want if you still want to conquer Ker. Implement it if you want, but your player may still rather just take zero glory and leave zero enmity.


Well 15 Gold +1 Glory (what you'd get for raiding the Mine on Patmos) is not to be frowned upon, even if you have to put an enmity token there.

To answer the very first question :

when someone successfully raid Ker, read the Captain's booke extract (corresponding to the Milestone), it will tell you how enmity is applied. You do NOT need to have 7 enmity tokens to attempt raiding Ker (but I strongly recommend you have at least one so you can activate it, otherwise the colony would be available for free for the first player to come to Patmos with at least one enmity token. And it's a mighty prize.)
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Maybe it's just our group, but the only people who initially wanted to conquer Ker were the people who were hit hardest by its effects. 15 Gold and one glory now at the cost of making Ker's effects even worse and making it even harder for you to deal with them in the future sounds pretty bad to me.

It's a disconnect I think Rob didn't anticipate. He has mentioned he never expected Ker to remain unconquered for long, but when it so seriously takes some players out of contention and the people best equipped to get those players out of that rut are the ones who most benefit from them staying in it, I'm surprised it wasn't foreseen.
 
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Becq
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Dexter345 wrote:
Maybe it's just our group, but the only people who initially wanted to conquer Ker were the people who were hit hardest by its effects. 15 Gold and one glory now at the cost of making Ker's effects even worse and making it even harder for you to deal with them in the future sounds pretty bad to me.

It's a disconnect I think Rob didn't anticipate. He has mentioned he never expected Ker to remain unconquered for long, but when it so seriously takes some players out of contention and the people best equipped to get those players out of that rut are the ones who most benefit from them staying in it, I'm surprised it wasn't foreseen.

In my campaign, the most-affected player conquered Ker (early the following game, and with ease), then kept it for the rest of the campaign. I can't speak for the others, but I thought of taking it away a number of times because it looked so valuable, but decided against it because the last place player had it and I opted against hitting him while he was down. (However, if another player had taken it, I would have stolen it with no regret -- possibly everyone felt this way, resulting in ownership staying constant.)
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Right, so imagine if in your campaign, the most-affected player tried to conquer it and failed to do so (but didn't sink). Would you expect that guy to take the 1-glory/15 gold consolation prize? I wouldn't.
 
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