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Steve Wood
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Here is the player reference for the Heavy Battle Cruiser. This is a 2-sided board that has everything you need to operate the HBC. Keeps the rulebook trimmed down and each player will have their own version to keep looking at the rulebook down to a minimum.



It's all happening this year. I won't promise dates any more, only to let you down again. But more work has been done, artists hired, prototypes built, etc. than ever before.

It is going really well and I will keep posting news here and there as I have time.

If I can get some love for this pic I will upload the back!

Steve

PS - this game comes with a lot of minis! Many more will be available as stretch goals!
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Trueflight Silverwing
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Awesome to see you working on this and updating things again. We're all still out here waiting.

Looks interesting and sounds great so far. Can't wait to see more.

Keep me in mind when it comes time to play test things
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Steve Wood
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Side 2

I've learned a bit about rulebook writing and plan to avoid many pitfalls this time. There will be one of these for each player in the game. The other set has the gunship Upgrades and Weapons on one side and the Carrier/Destroyer and Fighter Upgrades on the other.

I decided to phase out all the cards. There were just too many. Now the only cards will be the ones for the main Gunship Deck. And yes, I selected new size that can be sleeved

The Gunship Deck will have all new artwork. Torpedo card has been eliminated as you can now fire Torps when you want to with a limited supply always on board that can be replenished aboard the Carrier.

Cards will no longer be used to "build" the Gunships. The Gunships are now represented on the big board along with everything else (no more multiple small boards, just one big one) You build your ship by adding cardboard tokens to shaded areas of the ship. This lets us have tons more options than there used to be as far as making your ship look the way you want. We are very happy with it.

I just ordered a boatload of minis from Shapeways. I will post new pics once they are painted.

The HBC itself will be undergoing a major art overhaul. I have hired a professional sci fi artist to rebuild the 3D model, re-texture and re-skin it. He has done book covers for a lot of publishers and I can't wait to see it in a couple weeks. Luca is still on board and will be helping me do a lot of stuff once the models are ready.

We still need a name for it and I am taking suggestions. Once we have a name I will create a new BGG page for this game. Right now it has a working title of "Strike Force!" which I do like but it needs a little more.

I do know that I want the word "strike" in it. Maybe Strike Fleet or something along those lines. It needs to convey what the game is about - a small fleet of Carriers, Destroyers and Gunships/Fighters taking on a much larger and more powerful Heavy Battle Cruiser.

There's a TON more to talk about. I'll be around as new art, minis etc roll in.

SW
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Trueflight Silverwing
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I'll have to see the new desgin to really tell if I like it. One of my favorite things about the original game was the "zoomed in" Gunship board where you laid out the weapons and damage cards. It was such a nice feature to have them line up on the ship and actually fit in with the art. Not saying that the new system won't be similar, but until I see it, I'm skeptical.

Very interested to see how things have developed and changed since the first edition. I knew you were planning on retooling a lot of things. Can't wait to see how it is coming along.
 
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Steve Wood
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It's still pretty much the same concept but tokens are used instead of the cards. So you can still "see" the damage pile up, etc just not on cards.

For example, if you choose the Defense Turret, instead of putting a card in the middle of the Gunship, you will have a nice thick token thats actually shaped like the turret and can even be rotated in your preferred direction.

Flip the token over and there is a quick rules reference printed right on the back. You don't even have to put in right in the middle - you can mount your turret anywhere there is room!

And now there is a "payload" space that looks like bomb bay doors. You put Thruster Bombs here, along with a new type of bomb.

Trust me, its a much better system with all the visual appeal of the old one!
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Scott Everts
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Tokens sound like a good idea and you could make the ship mats much smaller. In case you wanted to fly a fleet.
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David Tinney
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I'm glad to see that Gunship is still being supported and that the HBC is still coming. Can't wait!

Keep up the great work Steve.
 
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Shayne Gray
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Steve,

I backed the original, and I am looking forward to this new one as the idea of space ship combat is something I enjoy.

I think a lot of the changes that you are going to be doing will fix a lot of the problems I had with the game. My main issue was the cards and being stuck multiple turns in a row without even being able to attempt to do some stuff just cause you didn't have the card that would fire your gun or shoot a torpedo. So I am really happy with the change to dice.

You are talking about having a lot of miniatures, how many is a lot and what are they miniatures of?

Because of the addition of a lot of miniatures what will that do to the price of the game? Don't get me wrong, I like minatures, I'm just looking towards my budget!

 
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Trueflight Silverwing
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By a lit of miniatures, I assume that you found an affordable way to make the turrets for the Handy Battle Cruiser? I know I asked after seeing the prototype a while back and you mentioned that they were super expensive to produce.

If that is the case, awesome. I do worry about the cost though like Zalendar. I hope it doesn't make the game jump up too much.


I've always been fine with using dice to hit in games. Put in some stuff that let you mitigate the randomness of the tools a but and you're golden.
 
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Shayne Gray
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I agree about luck mitigation, to me that is also important to have.
 
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Steve Wood
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Hi, Guys

You may have missed a post somewhere (totally my fault because I'm all over the place and not too organized with my posting)

One of the things that has set the project back is the fact that we playtested a whole new dice system and I was completely unhappy with it. I hate the term "dicefest" but that's exactly what it was

Things like "Evasive Action" were impossible to replicate with the dice, and trust me we tried several ways that failed. We did a lot of testing to force things to work within the new system that just did not. And soooo much die rolling. Also, we found that there was no reason whatsover to put an Ion Cannon on a Gunship (sacrilege!) The two Gunships are on the same team in this one (at least in the battle going on on the FRONT side of the board) shhh...

The dice work great for the HBC and the Carriers/Destroyers so those are pretty much set. But I feel the Gunships really lost their soul without the cards. So we are testing a compromise where the Gunships get Torpedo tokens that can be replaced on the Carrier just like Bombs, etc. and you still use the cards for other things. There are some new cards and we are working on a couple ways to make the deck more useful / create powerful combos.

When I finally create the page for the game and start the "How it works" thread, we will get into more detail.

But rest assured we are taking serious measures to make this a great game - and yes, we did find a great new use for those Ion Cannons!

SW

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Steve Wood
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Regarding minis...

I remember saying at some point that they were prohibitively expensive but I may have been referring to getting them 3D printed for my prototypes. The Bridge tower alone costs around 80 bucks! But the pricing I got from China for the new game was reasonable enough. Their mould costs are nowhere near what you pay here and after that you are just paying for the plastic. Look at all the games coming out with tons of minis these days. It's really come down in the last 5 years. What you used to pay a sculptor hundreds of dollars for can now be bought online for 15 bucks if you find the right 3D modeler (and I have a nice group of them now!)

That being said, the price of the game is going to go up. Buying it on Kickstarter will help because I plan to provide a discount there. But I will not make it available through distribution. Ever. The distributors steal 60% of the retail price, forcing the designers to inflate the price way past what it should be in order to make a decent profit. They offer empty promises that you will make a ton of money, though, because of the "huge quantities" they will take off your hands. Heck, they will even allow the designer to pay to ship the games to their warehouse on the other side of the country. The FLGS is no friend to the designer, either. They want nothing to do with you unless you go through the distributor. So it will only be available through our site, but we will do our best to keep the cost reasonable and offer fair shipping, etc. I plan to work out a few deals with European dealers etc. for my friends overseas. And I have a good group of retail guys in Canada as well. /rant

So, back to minis!

Included in game:

(1) Bridge Tower
(8) Blaster Turrets
(2) Heavy Blaster Turrets
(2) Heavy Ion Turrets
(6) Control Markers (for Capital Ship Shields, Fighter Squadron Strength, etc)

(2) Gunships

Available if we hit Stretch Goals:

(12) Gunship Armor
(6) Capital Ship Armor
(8) Heavy Battle Cruiser Armor
(2) Homing Missile Launchers (for HBC)
(36) Defense Cannon Batteries (for HBC)

The Stretch goal ones should not be too expensive and if they are not reached, those minis will be replaced with cardboard tokens instead.

If this Kickstarter goes buck wild, there are other minis that I would love to add, including the Defense Turret for the Gunships and whatever other ones we end up being able to afford. It would be awesome to have Torpedo markers molded in red and blue...

SW






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Steve Wood
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Zalendar wrote:

I agree about luck mitigation, to me that is also important to have.


Finally (for tonight)

I agree with this but I also think that luck plays a big role in every game, especially when there is a lot of combat.

You build your deck in M:TG but part of your success lies in whether or when you draw the right cards.

You have a grand strategy in RISK, but the dice can fail you terribly (and they always do when I am rolling!)

You're having a great game of Settlers, but for some reason you are never getting that "6" to develop Brick and you really need that road!

One thing in Gunship that I feel a lot of people did not "get" is that half the "strategy" is in building your Gunship. Once it is built, you get to see how well it stacks up against what the other guy built. A lot of people did not like the game because they felt it did not offer enough "choices" but there is an art to getting the right combination of offense and defense, especially in a 3 or 4-player game. I just wanted a light space combat game where it was fun to create a ship and take it into combat. It was never intended to be too deep of a thinking man's game.

I am hoping that I have fixed most of this with the new game. Now, you get to build a Gunship AND two Capital Ships. They all have their own (and plenty) offensive and defensive Upgrades. Each ship gets its own 3 Actions so we have come a LOOOONG way from "flip a card and see if your Carrier did 0,1, or 2 hits)

You can choose to move your Capital Ships in closer to the HBC. They will gain Bullseye on every shot but will take Double Damage when they get hit (!)

Or, they can retreat to Safe Range to focus on repairs and getting some Shields back online.

Gunships give you the best firepower and way to deliver it, but they will have their work cut out for them because the HBC has TONS of Defense Cannons. You'll need to figure out which Zones have a weakness or spend a couple turns "softening up" the defenses with Blasters and Ions before you go back with the big guns. And the Gunships will no longer be imprisoned with 3 Zones where they can be. There are now 16 places your Gunship can go!

The player(s) (game supports up to 6) who control the Heavy Battle Cruiser build their ship first. They can build a dreadnaught with enough power to crack a planet or an impregnable fortress (or any combo of the two).

It's then up to the Attackers to formulate a strategy and outfit their ships with the weapons they will need to get the job done. That, to me, is a huge part of strategy. Some shots that you wanted to make will miss at the worst times, sometimes the dice will turn the tide...but isnt that really part of what makes it all fun?

More soon - thanks!

SW

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Trueflight Silverwing
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to use your own example though, as a big MTG fan, you build your deck in such a way that you have several ways to mitigate the randomness of the draw. You are limited to 4 of any specific card, but there are plenty of other cards that let you go fetch specific cards that you want or look at what is coming and rearrange them in order to compensate for random luck


Check out the game GKR - Heavy Hitters. Their combat system is a very nice mix of deck building (where you pick what weapons and extras will be included in your deck), random dice rolls (for attack and defense), and mitigation for those rolls (using cover, sponsor cards, mech placement, and vehicle sizes). I really love the system that they have come up with. It is well worth checking out for a look at a system that looks, functions, and fits really well.



Looking forward to seeing what you have come up with though. Sounds like a lot of cool new changes. The variety of models on the list sounds really cool. Have things changed much visually from the old prototype? One thing I did notice was only 2 gunships? No option for 4 so that they could be used with other things as well? Thinking of classic Gunship or Afterburners, I know not everyone liked them, but we still break out afterburners sometimes. Also, what about the MK II's? My favorite model of the Gunship. I would hate to see those get skipped over in the new game. They deserve some loving too!


Still offering to help test and do a video review for the Kickstarter campaign if you are interested.

 
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Steve Wood
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The Gunships in the new game are actually MkIIs in the classic red and blue. The older GS and Fighters are in retirement but I doubt we've seen the last of them.

I'm toying with what to put on the other side of the big board. But a 4-man free-for-all is not out of the question.

I want to finish up the core stuff first and then see what to put on the back. Stretch Goals may come into play on that as well.

Thanks for the offers - I will definitely be in touch when things are a bit closer.

SW

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Trueflight Silverwing
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I'm not sure how the board is laid out now, but if it is similar to the original idea (with the player info along the edge) maybe you could make an expansion or add on that would be just that section with the other components to add on 2 more players? Just a though. I really can't make any real feedback or suggestions until I see some of the new stuff.


As I said, can't wait to see more.
 
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Arrrrr'lex
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Are you planning to keep all promises this time? Just asking on behalf of us "Captain"-Backers from the first Kickstarter...
 
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caleb bolthouse
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Take it easy man. Things come up. I don't think a public forum is a good place to air problems/resolve issues. If you don't have a satisfactory resolution to a problem and you are acting in good faith, you need to address it through other channels. If you are just taking stabs at a person you want a product from, you might want to think about your tone rather than burning bridges. flies/honey/vinegar.

--Friendly advice with the intent to improve everyone
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Martin Gallo
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cnbolthouse wrote:
Take it easy man. Things come up. I don't think a public forum is a good place to air problems/resolve issues. If you don't have a satisfactory resolution to a problem and you are acting in good faith, you need to address it through other channels. If you are just taking stabs at a person you want a product from, you might want to think about your tone rather than burning bridges. flies/honey/vinegar.

--Friendly advice with the intent to improve everyone
More intended to be friendly advice: There are people on BGG that will castigate you for posts like yours. I have first hand experience as a target.

It seems like there are grievances against every producer. Some deserve it more than others, but there are plenty of "bad guys" out there.

Best wishes to all, for speedy and satisfactory outcomes and fun times!
 
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caleb bolthouse
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they can do what they want
 
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