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Brass: Lancashire» Forums » General

Subject: Shouldn't Brass:Lancaster be a different entry on BGG than Brass (2007) rss

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Lawrence Wang
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It's like a second edition with new art, new components and even revisions on rules. E.g. new rules for 2 players and new VP for stage 1 cotton mill.


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Gerit Driessen
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I cannot find Brass Birmingham on BGG...?

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Even Kickstarter versions are forced to have a separate entry. This is a second edition with updated rules. It must be a separate entry.
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Morten K
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To me the name change is the worst.
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Straddllw wrote:
It's like a second edition with new art, new components and even revisions on rules. E.g. new rules for 2 players and new VP for stage 1 cotton mill.

Out of the four listed changes, three are clearly too trivial to justify a split. But the player count change might be an exception. Hard to say for sure until there's some actual details rather than Kickstarter marketing. (Though that also makes this title change feel very premature).

I say "clearly", even though one can always find precedents in either direction. But for example Railroad Tycoon and Railways of the World got merged (despite starting off as different game entries), had several rules changes and added a completely new map.
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Chris
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Tigrillo wrote:
To me the name change is the worst.


Seems pretty disrepectful of the decade of gameplay that's gone before to officially change its name.
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Alex
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Not sure there are enough differences to warrant a new entry but the name change make absolute no sense.
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Gerit Driessen
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Why is ther no talk of giving Brass Birmingham its own entry? AFAIK this *is* more another game than Brass, and would deserve it. More so, if deviation from the original is the criterium, than Lancashire in my opinion.

Anyway, strange nobody mentions this game.
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Nuno Bizarro Sentieiro
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Tigrillo wrote:
To me the name change is the worst.


This.

If the game is different give it a new entry and a new name.
If the game is mostly the same and will not get a new entry, PLEASE don't rename it.

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Ola Mikael Hansson
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Sentieiro wrote:
If the game is mostly the same and will not get a new entry, PLEASE don't rename it.
Well, at least renaming it is consistent with how they renamed the "Settlers of Catan" entry to "Catan" - that is, use the latest published name.
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Chris
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Quote:
Thank you for your recent proposal to change the representative image
for Brass: Lancashire.
Your proposal has been declined.

Anyone else want to start lobbying to change the image back as well?
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If the new one stays a version, then the default title and image are correct. It comes down to whether it stays a version, or a separate entry.

unic wrote:
Sentieiro wrote:
If the game is mostly the same and will not get a new entry, PLEASE don't rename it.
Well, at least renaming it is consistent with how they renamed the "Settlers of Catan" entry to "Catan" - that is, use the latest published name.


TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
Quote:
Thank you for your recent proposal to change the representative image
for Brass: Lancashire.
Your proposal has been declined.

Anyone else want to start lobbying to change the image back as well?
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Alex
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unic wrote:
Sentieiro wrote:
If the game is mostly the same and will not get a new entry, PLEASE don't rename it.
Well, at least renaming it is consistent with how they renamed the "Settlers of Catan" entry to "Catan" - that is, use the latest published name.


Except Brass : Lancashire is not a published game.
For all we know, this may just be a new creative way to bring some hype on a Kickstarter campaign.
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Gavan Brown
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Hello everyone,

I just wanted to chime in to say the decision to keep them one entry was that of the boardgamegeek admins.

We attempted to create a new separate page and the request was rejected. Ultimately the BGG admins feel that the rules changes in Roxley's version do not merit the need for a new page, and thus have considered it a "new version". We do see the logic in this.

We have put "Lancashire" as a subtitle on the cover of the box so that consumers can very clearly understand the difference between Roxley's new version of Lancashire, and Birmingham.

Of course Roxley is happy with BGG calling this page whatever they feel is correct.

After discussing this issue with Martin Wallace, we are all satisfied with the current setup and yield to BGG's expertise in these matters.

Gavan
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Nathan Larsen
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It's a little irrational how much it annoys me to see the name change for Brass but I can't get over it. I don't know if it needs it's own entry on bgg, but I really don't like that it has taken over the old entry.
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Nathan Larsen
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RoosterJuice wrote:

We have put "Lancashire" as a subtitle on the cover of the box so that consumers can very clearly understand the difference between Roxley's new version of Lancashire, and Birmingham.


Wouldn't calling one Brass and the other Brass: Birmingham accomplish the exact same thing?
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Gavan Brown
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dekedagger wrote:
RoosterJuice wrote:

We have put "Lancashire" as a subtitle on the cover of the box so that consumers can very clearly understand the difference between Roxley's new version of Lancashire, and Birmingham.


Wouldn't calling one Brass and the other Brass: Birmingham accomplish the exact same thing?


The title is Brass. We simply state the area below the title.
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Tsar Count
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afafard wrote:
unic wrote:
Sentieiro wrote:
If the game is mostly the same and will not get a new entry, PLEASE don't rename it.
Well, at least renaming it is consistent with how they renamed the "Settlers of Catan" entry to "Catan" - that is, use the latest published name.


Except Brass : Lancashire is not a published game.
For all we know, this may just be a new creative way to bring some hype on a Kickstarter campaign.
This!!!!

It is one thing to put a brand new game from Kickstarter on BGG.

But when a very established game, such as Brass is getting a new version developed for possible distribution, why screw up the established version (with a name change and game image) until the game is actually released.

There is a difference. BGG wants consistency, but if they can't see there is a difference, then it doesn't produce consistency, it produces chaos.

The worst case was Age of Empires III: The Age of Discovery. They changed the name and game image for that game for a new version, and it wasn't released for FOUR years. So we had to look at a name change and cover that didn't exist for four years for an established game. People were asking questions like how can I find this game? People come to BGG for answers, and all they do is get confused. Because we had to tell them, yeah it doesn't exist...it's really this name and this game image...BGG is just being moronic.

And then after four years, what did they do, they created a new entry anyway Empires: Age of Discovery.

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Andi Hub
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Gerit wrote:
Why is ther no talk of giving Brass Birmingham its own entry? AFAIK this *is* more another game than Brass, and would deserve it. More so, if deviation from the original is the criterium, than Lancashire in my opinion.

Anyway, strange nobody mentions this game.

I am pretty sure that Brass:Birmingham will get its own entry. Especially, since it is sold separately in the Kickstarter.

I do not mind changing the name or the picture for the existing Brass entry. I would mind if Brass:Lancashire got its own entry. Very small changes do not make it a different game. I am always a bit annoyed, that there are multiple entries for Through the Ages or War of the Ring in the top 100. At least the lower ranked entry should be unranked.
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Babis Tsimoris
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what is Birmingham?? Is also another edition of brass to come out?? surprise
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Gavan Brown
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Quote:
I do not mind changing the name or the picture for the existing Brass entry. I would mind if Brass:Lancashire got its own entry. Very small changes do not make it a different game. I am always a bit annoyed, that there are multiple entries for Through the Ages or War of the Ring in the top 100. At least the lower ranked entry should be unranked.


I hypothesize that this is a very real concern, but haven't asked them. The potential for multiple versions of the same game in the top 100 is a bit strange.
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K R X
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I'm not concerned about it. Although it would of been interesting to see how the geek rating may of changed with updated art. (Brass in the top 10 again?!)

But regardless, doesn't Brass: Birmingham need it's own entry?

Just like other standalone expansions have gotten? I mean, can we even call Birmingham an expansion at this point? Or just the next game in a series of games?
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Gavan Brown
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KRX3 wrote:
I'm not concerned about it. Although it would of been interesting to see how the geek rating may of changed with updated art. (Brass in the top 10 again?!)

But regardless, doesn't Brass: Birmingham need it's own entry?

Just like other standalone expansions have gotten? I mean, can we even call Birmingham an expansion at this point? Or just the next game in a series of games?


Birmingham will get it's own entry. It is not an expansion, it is a completely new game based on the same core system. We will be adding an entry for it in the next few days.
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Adrian Iordache
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Based on Gavan's comments above, I've submitted a correction for default name of Brass on BGG.
We'll see how it goes.
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Lawrence Wang
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And yet we have War of the Ring 1st vs 2nd edition and there's not much difference there compared to Through the Ages.
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