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Subject: Looking for some advice before my first game. rss

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john kim
Canada
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Hey guys, just wanting some input on a couple of questions.

1) Should I use exploration tokens for my first game?

2) Should I print out and aid that outline odds and card quantities in the fate deck? Kinda worried about this one as I feel like players might end up card counting a lot and bog the game down, but knowing the odds could be a great tool.
 
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Mark Bauer
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zerods wrote:
Hey guys, just wanting some input on a couple of questions.

1) Should I use exploration tokens for my first game?

2) Should I print out and aid that outline odds and card quantities in the fate deck? Kinda worried about this one as I feel like players might end up card counting a lot and bog the game down, but knowing the odds could be a great tool.


1) no. I have the game for many years and never even considered playing with them If you are afraid of too much complexity, there is no better place to start.

2) I'd also go with no - partly. The most interesting thing is the probability of the orb symbol and the success symbol. Just tell them that 50% of the cards have an orb for circle units (like the necromancer...) and that in 30 fate cards only 4 have a gold success, while 50% is fail.
No need to give them a full chart of probabilities for every damage symbol and so on.
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mike m
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zerods wrote:
Hey guys, just wanting some input on a couple of questions.

1) Should I use exploration tokens for my first game?

2) Should I print out and aid that outline odds and card quantities in the fate deck? Kinda worried about this one as I feel like players might end up card counting a lot and bog the game down, but knowing the odds could be a great tool.

mostly agree with Mark's answers. Add will add wrt #1, that i played with exploration tokens a few times, but now always exclude them when teaching new games, and also don't include them when the choice is up to me. If someone i am playing with wants them, i won't object, but they don't add enough to the game to make them worth it to me.
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Marc Hanna
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SirWashington wrote:
zerods wrote:
Hey guys, just wanting some input on a couple of questions.

1) Should I use exploration tokens for my first game?

2) Should I print out and aid that outline odds and card quantities in the fate deck? Kinda worried about this one as I feel like players might end up card counting a lot and bog the game down, but knowing the odds could be a great tool.

mostly agree with Mark's answers. Add will add wrt #1, that i played with exploration tokens a few times, but now always exclude them when teaching new games, and also don't include them when the choice is up to me. If someone i am playing with wants them, i won't object, but they don't add enough to the game to make them worth it to me.


just curious, why don't you seasoned guys like playing the exploration tokens? I've seen players not want to play with the commander rules, which I agree, but didn't know there was an impression out there about the exploration tokens. Just too much hassle for the effect, then?
 
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Karl Hoche
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My group and I prefer to play with the explore tokens but on our first learning game we played without them.
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Mark Bauer
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Honosbinda wrote:
just curious, why don't you seasoned guys like playing the exploration tokens? I've seen players not want to play with the commander rules, which I agree, but didn't know there was an impression out there about the exploration tokens. Just too much hassle for the effect, then?

exactly. At least for me they don't add enough to make it worthwile for everyone to remember their effects etc.
Also, I see Runewars as my go-to military, strategy, area control, army game. Exploration tokens do not support this premise and are just a distraction.
 
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Sean D.
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Mark_of_Heresy wrote:
My group and I prefer to play with the explore tokens but on our first learning game we played without them.


+1 in favour of using exploration tokens. The Dragon Throne, Magic gates, extra resources through villages all add a little flavour to the game. They're not much extra work IMHO.
 
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Garrett
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I found exploration tokens to be intimidating for my first few play-throughs. However, I like to include them noe because I enjoy the mix of heroes and armies. When I play with new players, I usually leave them out for simplicity's sake.

I may be wrong, because I don't have many plays under my belt, but I feel that they add another layer of randomness to the game. If you are interestedin a more narrative game, they're great, but if you want a more competitive game, I think they can make things feel unfair. Please post if you disagree or agree with this, because it's just an impression I have so far.
 
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Marc Hanna
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Budgernaut wrote:
I found exploration tokens to be intimidating for my first few play-throughs. However, I like to include them noe because I enjoy the mix of heroes and armies. When I play with new players, I usually leave them out for simplicity's sake.

I may be wrong, because I don't have many plays under my belt, but I feel that they add another layer of randomness to the game. If you are interestedin a more narrative game, they're great, but if you want a more competitive game, I think they can make things feel unfair. Please post if you disagree or agree with this, because it's just an impression I have so far.


I have the same impression that there is an extra layer that can be interesting; however, Mark indicates that these tokens don't add much to the military angle of the game. There can be a lot going on already without this feature and I suspect the seasoned players find it distracts from the core elements of the game. I'm not sure about the balancing aspect.
 
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Scott Lewis
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I add the exploration tokens to pretty much every game. The tokens are subtle, but I think they add just a little bit of extra flavor to things. I have never had a problem using them even in teaching games, and in my 50+ games they have never felt overly fiddly, nor detracting from the feel of the game, but many of them in fact can add to it (the villages and dragon thrones in particular, but also the portals in many cases)

I guess it's a matter of taste. I think they are fun. The only option that I actively avoid is commanders.
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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I also use exploration tokens every time, even in teaching games. They do not add much complexity at all and I like how they make the game play out even more differently every time. Plus, I favor story over combat.
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mike m
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my reason for never using them is that i just don't find they add a lot to the game, and saving a few minutes in setup and cleanup is worth more to me. but it is of course all personal opinion, the OP will have to try them sometime and see if they like them.
 
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Kelly Fischer
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I use the exploration tokens every time with just one modification. I remove the flooded exploration tiles (Banners of War expansion) as they prohibit movement too much IMO.
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Scott Lewis
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KeyserSoze wrote:
I use the exploration tokens every time with just one modification. I remove the flooded exploration tiles (Banners of War expansion) as they prohibit movement too much IMO.

I do that sometimes, too, or at least remove ONE of them. However, with the revised edition it's a little less problematic since you can move heroes anytime (and so they can get in and out). But I do agree, that's the one token that can be the biggest pain.
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Marc Hanna
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getting interesting!

Maybe there is sort of an ideal combo of these tokens -- leave out the flood, which I don't like either -- any others to pull that would optimize?
 
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Sean D.
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I hate the flood token. It just bogs down the game without making it more interesting or fun. We tend to make maps with a lot of choke point with mountains and water, so adding in the flood tokens just took the limited mobility down further making our long games even longer. I don't even have the flood tokens in distribution now at all.
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Ahmad Siddiqi
Pakistan
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On getting those orbs in a full Fate deck, by the way, it is 40% for circle units (casters and heroes) and 20% odds for non-circles.
 
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Mark Bauer
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ahmadms wrote:
On getting those orbs in a full Fate deck, by the way, it is 40% for circle units (casters and heroes) and 20% odds for non-circles.


hmm... seems to misremember. you are right
Better stick to this chart:
Runewars Fate Card Graphical Summary
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Marcin 'Wis' Wisthal
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Honosbinda wrote:
getting interesting!

Maybe there is sort of an ideal combo of these tokens -- leave out the flood, which I don't like either -- any others to pull that would optimize?


I also skip the explorations tokens in most games with first time players. Later I use them without the Flood (can destroy the map), Temple (can destroy the influence game) and the Raiding Party (2 wounds for 3hp hero means a no-brainer attack and death - I don't need that kind of randomness).
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