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Red Poppies Campaigns: The Battles for Ypres» Forums » Rules

Subject: Reaction fire against a stack rss

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Stéphane Tanguay
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A stack of two British units is activated. The British player declare that the first unit will fire at a lone German unit. he does not declare any action yet for his second unit. The German player declare reaction fire. The British player fires with his first unit but The German make his cohesion check.

At this point, is the German player allowed to fire on the whole stack, possibly preventing the second British unit to be declared for fire too? Or is the British player allowed to declare fire with his second unit and then the German get to reaction fire on the whole stack?

Would it have made any difference if the British player declared from the start that both his units would fire on the same target?

Thanks!
 
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John Gorkowski
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In fact, the German player could fire back simultaneously with the first British attack. So, even if the German unit failed its cohesion check, it could fire back as long as it declared "reaction fire" in response to the initial British attack.

The German return fire hits the whole British hex and therefore could knock out the 2nd British unit before it could act IF that 2nd British unit failed to declare that it was participating in the initial strike. Note, the British might do that to see the outcome of the first shot before deciding what to do with this second unit. If he does that, he runs the risk of having his second unit knocked out before it can act.

However, if the British simply want to hit the German with all they have then this is how events would unfold.

1) British unit 1 and British unit 2 declare attacks against German unit 1.
2) German unit 1 then declares reaction fire in response.
3) Roll all dice for all attacks and then implement all results - so everyone gets to fire BEFORE they suffer a hit. So roll the attacks for British unit 1 and British unit 2 against the German - remember the result, but do not implement yet - then roll the "reaction fire" attack by German unit 1 against both British units and then implement all results at the same time.

 
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Michel Ouimet
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I am surprised by this procedure. I really thought that:

1. Activating units did not oblige the player to announce in advance each action of each activated unit.
2. Activating a mass was identical to activating a pile : each activated unit had to do its action one after the other.
3. Each action of a unit did trigger a reaction BEFORE the next activated unit did its action.

[EDITED] I'm (not) falling off my chair (anymore), since this procedure does not modify the reaction fire capacity of the target: the target will do its reaction fire anyway, after the first attacking fire or after both attacking fires.
 
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Stéphane Tanguay
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moet wrote:

1. Activating units did not oblige the player to announce in advance each action of each activated unit.


This is still true but there might be consequences


 
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Michel Ouimet
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stanguay wrote:
moet wrote:

1. Activating units did not oblige the player to announce in advance each action of each activated unit.
This is still true but there might be consequences

…only for the attacker. :-)
 
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Michel Ouimet
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Further explanations here: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/955578/reaction-fire-ag...
 
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John Gorkowski
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1. Activating units did not oblige the player to announce in advance each action of each activated unit.

They are NOT obliged to so declare, but nor are they forbidden to do so.

2. Activating a mass was identical to activating a pile : each activated unit had to do its action one after the other.

Units can perform actions at the same time as when two co-stacked units move together.

3. Each action of a unit did trigger a reaction BEFORE the next activated unit did its action.

Where in the rules does it break it down unit-by-unit like that?

Further explanations here: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/955578/reaction-fire-ag...

This clarifies that firepower values are not summed when two units fire at the same target, so two shots of +3 do not sum to +6, but they are resolved as two rolls at +3 each. That's a different issue?
 
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Michel Ouimet
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gorkowskij wrote:
3. Each action of a unit did trigger a reaction BEFORE the next activated unit did its action.

Where in the rules does it break it down unit-by-unit like that?

Well, it's implicit all over the rules:
6.61 Movement points are spent one at a time; and each movement point spent can trigger reaction fire.
6.71 …ready, reacting units simply declare reaction fire in response to an enemy movement point expenditure or a fire attack.
6.72 Moving units should momentarily pause after each movement point expenditure to allow the reactor time to consider a reaction fire shot. A reaction fire shot is actually executed after the movement point that triggered it is spent and all consequences of that expenditure are implemented.

But its true that 6.74 open a door for simultaneous fires against a single hex: "When the actor’s units fire at a target hex, any of the reactor’s ready units in that target hex can use reaction fire to shoot back simultaneously at their attackers."

gorkowskij wrote:
Further explanations here: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/955578/reaction-fire-ag...


This clarifies that firepower values are not summed when two units fire at the same target, so two shots of +3 do not sum to +6, but they are resolved as two rolls at +3 each. That's a different issue?

The discussion that the link opens shows why it's important to resolve simultaneously all fires between two hexes. :-)
 
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