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Subject: Desperate Hour: how to win as rebels? rss

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Hungry Hippo
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Hello all, hoping for some advice to turn my team around. I am playing as a four-member rebel team with vinto, shyla, onar and diala. The campaign hasn't gone well with the emperor winning most missions with ease, and having played desperate hour before I know what is in store for me here. I simply do not see how the heroes are meant to win this one. Has anyone had success here, and if so how did you do it?
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Tomer Mlynarsky
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Sad to say, but nope. I ran it as an emperor and believe me, I was playing with kid gloves and still totally demolished them.

Heck, when the part about
Spoiler (click to reveal)
the door closing
occured, I even decided to drop it and then decided instead that they can pick which if any does that.




They still lost big time. I don't think the scenario is possible unless the imperial player seriously throws the game
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Nathan Lewis
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As posted above, unless the imperial gives the rebels the game its really hard to win. I was playing rather lazily as the IP and I comfortably won. Some advice:

Try and keep together, I was able to split up the rebels and it was easy to kill them off
Spoiler about an event (but you have played, so not too much of one):
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Keep your "reinforcements" alive, it can dish out a bunch of damage and it gets an action every time a rebel activates so use it well.

In the same vein, I think keeping an activation advantage is key in this mission, otherwise you'll get overwhelmed.

I won this one by having general weiss and his squad coming down one end of the corridor, and Darth Vader (who I brought in via the 1 influence card), stormies and royal guards down the other end. If the IP has a good damage dealer, make sure to kill them or keep it away to protect your aid.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Vader finished off the AT-ST with two saber strikes, using sustained fire and brutality meant I hit Mak badly and dealt a ton of damage to the AT-ST, which brought it down straight away after my RGs were tapping it and stunning it.


Finally, I'll say that I'm no expert player of this game (was my first campaign) but I think those tips would help. Just remember that the objective is what matters/
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Kevin Allenberg
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I've lost as the Imperial on this one. However...

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I probably could have won before they made it out of the hanger. I had two wounded, and decided I wanted them to at least get to the Clearing. I mean it's a 2+ hour mission, what fun is ending it 15 minutes in, so I spread out my attacks rather than focusing the heathy rebels. They caught a lucky break with the doors, shutting some of my troops in the back rooms and their only remaining unwounded hero between their AT-ST and a door. A few bad rolls was all it took from there.


So, luck is a factor, and in my case my preference toward having fun versus winning.
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Felipe Bulhões
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If I remember well, Saska is the GOAT for this mission.
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Gunde Gran
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I won this map yesterday as Rebels. I´ll give a detailed account of how below. Spoilers ahead, obviously...

Spoiler (click to reveal)
First off, I played against a very experienced IMP player with subversive deck. I didn´t know anything about the map beforehand. Leading up to desperate hour, we had both won 12 xp each, with me winning more side missions. The events is from memory, so some parts might be incorrect.

My team consisted of Jynn, Diala, Fenn and Gideon. With master of command on gideon (three uses of command at cost of 4 strain) and being able to get a player focused when declaring attack (thus, 5 strain), I simply started by letting Fenn (every increase on havoc and blast attachment on rifle, including reward from his side mission)kill of the royal cards and get some blast dmg on the door (not enough to open it). Imperial activated the elite storms, but with starting position on jynn she refired and killed one of them and killed the other by quick draw, taking about 5 dmg. Jynn had by then (with extra movement points from being attacked/attacking) positioned herself close to the crate at the top room. Her activation was simply picking the crate and killing the last stormtrooper. Thus, Imp was basically out of units straight on.

Turn 2 he used threat to mobilize a few new units. I had positioned fenn and diala close to one of the doors (the dmg one) since I didn´t know what to expect when they opened and wanted a clear fireing line. Weiss gets out, and he gets some dmg on fenn. But basically i get him down to 5 health with use of command and diala (removing one of his defensive dices). Seeming how quick i kill him, imp panics a bit (his only mistake) and use his deplete ability to roll for heal (healing him 5 hp). Turn 3, Weiss is still alive but on my first round i managed to kill of all remaining imps but one, forcing him to activate Weiss without any target ( i hid behind the walls). I then heal up on a few characters (he got the ability where he can interupt to attack, but since im out of range he can just move. At the end, he does, but tries to move away from me. Mid turn three, i manage to kill him off, spawning "my" at and some new imperial ones. I decide to quickly move forward, leaving the new spawned imps behind.

This is where my main mistake take place. I get the crate just outside the "inner"-part of the map, and get a card where im able to see his reserve deck. I find Weiss in there again, and I get the idea in my head that my AT will be "taken over" by Weiss. So i keep running forward with the team, leaving the At behind. My main reasoning is that I might be able to fight off anything in the clearing without the ATST, but I wont be able to fight with a ATST in my back killing Gideon. IMP conserves threat (sitting on 23) since the deploy area is back with my atst (i kind of figured this here but got it confirmed afterwards) and the figures deployed would not be able to catch my people anyway. I, probably mid turn 5, use a strain move as first thing on Dialas activation to "activate" the outdoor stuff. (by this time, all of my team is close to fully healed. Jynn and Diala got about 5 dmg but no strain, Gideon one dmg no strain, and Fenn 2 strain), but gideon has already activated.

Seeing everything spawn and the door close, I´m happy to have my whole team in position. Main problem is that i left the At far behind, now having to fight without it. I position Diala at the bot close to Weiss with a double move, while Fenn makes a double attack on the e-web elite, using the close proximity to Weiss to score 6 points of blast dmg on him while almost killing the e-web. E-web activates, jynn managed to stun it, leaving one attack aimed at her. She takes enough dmg to be wounded and having full strain (he uses ability where he converts some of dmg to strain). Weiss gets two attacks, scoring some hits on Fenn, who is close to be wounded (he got rebel elite so 15 hp). At start of round 6, IMP deploy for 23 threat, with the map simply overun by imp figures (royal guards, trandoshans, everything). I start turn 6 with Gideon commanding Fenn to fire 3 times, using all his strain to also letting him be focused for one of the shots.Fenn, despite being targeted by the imp deplete-ability where he gets -1 dmg and -1 defense, managed to injure Weiss to what is now a total of 17 points (9 hp left). The e-web dies from blast. IMP activates royal guards, killing jynn (/before she can activate) and succesfully managing to stun fenn. Weiss activation moves him further away from DIala, who has yet to activate. I activate Fenn, removes stun and get another 5 dmg points down on Weiss (now only 4 hp left), mainly thanks to 2 extra dmg from the trench fighter ability with Weiss now standing withing 3 spaces (top of the clearing). His defensive rolls with Weiss is kind of bad. Weiss fires on Diala (probably a mistake), but I roll a clean defense and she gets focused. He then rushes Diala with elite royal guards, they fail to stun her (rolling bad again) but converts dmg into strain, having her fully strained and about 5 hp from wounded. I activate Diala, she uses the bacta pump (best item in game) to remove one strain (could have been a stun), reaches Weiss on 5 move (through royals with art of movement), rolls as focused (having her light saber and the attachment that gives one surge on exchaust). He rolls 4 defense, she rolls 5 dmg, i use the exhaust ability for the surge and use the pierce 3. 4 points of dmg and I win, having one strain left in case I´d had to reroll. The win is possible despite having "my" ATST not making a single attack. Close as hell, very difficult, needs some good dice, but doable.

So, which factors was key? Well, i had a very solid team, with good items and great synergies. I also managed to quickly kill of the starting IMP figures and then decided to rush ahead. In order to achieve this, I think its crucial to get a lot of "extra moves" going forward. Trying to end this turn 8 seems impossible. Gideon got 2 mp every time he uses command (usually two times per turn (4 mp) he heals first then command and master command), Fenn got tactical movement (+2 to him or friendly), Diala art of movement (5 move no constraints) and Jynn everything (3 moves in total if attacking and damaging, one move if shoot upon). All in all, it made me able to move forward quickly, and it really helped to be all healed up and at the "right side" of the door still having some activations left when triggering the final area. I never targeted anything but Weiss (well, the E-web, but that was just in order to get easier dmg by blast) and I had Gideon not wounded standing next to the door, 3 spaces away from Fenn. I also had better dice than the IMP-player in this scenario, but it wasn´t crazy, just slightly better overall. I also had good weapons on Jynn and Fenn, both rolling 3 dices in attack. Jynn also had the dual pistol trait being able to use surge from two guns, thus having straing effects like pierce 2, dmg 2, dmg 1, etc.

Seeing Weiss spawn again and realising I had my AT out of the fight, it felt impossible. Even more so seeing the amount of figures he deployed at start of round 6. But in the end, I did it, despite lack of At and the IMP playing solid. Hope it works as encouragement for any rebels out there...
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John Fanjoy
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@Gundegran, just FYI, threat is hard capped at 20. Any threat gained over that amount is lost. Nice job winning a tough mission when the imp had an unfair advantage!
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Rico P
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Great writeup! Although I do have to question some of the details, it's simply screaming "rules mistake"

No spoilers, since these are only general points

Jyn can only quickdraw once per round, how is she able to "refired and killed one of them and killed the other by quick draw"?

How is Gideon doing Command x3? The maximum you can do is Command + Masterstroke = Command x2. Command is a special action, which means you can only do it once. I feel like this played a huge role, letting you do stuff like Blast 9/move x3 when you could only do Blast 6/move x2

How is Imperial deploying 23 threats worth of troops? The maximum threat is 20

I got a feeling that your Imperial player isn't as experienced as you might think. For example, does he know that "Activating a group" does NOT mean "everyone in that group activates" (the eStorm in your writeup), to block LOS and to deny Jyn's quickdraw?

As Imp, I'd have no one to blame but myself if I group my troops together while knowing you can do Blast 6 (Rebel elite + weapon attachment + attack twice), looking at that elite E-Web over there

Also note that you had THE best team imo: Fenn + Gideon + Diala combo. This combo is fairly well-known to be borderline game-breaking

These are only some of my thoughts. It's a hard mission. Congrats on the win, but I'm saying it's highly likely that a typical/average Rebel team will not have the same experience as your group just did
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Gunde Gran
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Cheers.

Jynn only quickdraws once, the other ability when she "fires back" is peacemaker, her reward (she was fired upon).

Gideon didnt do command times3 in the beginning, thats my faulty memory, he fires himself finishing the remaining royal guard (who had like 1 hp left after fenns attacks). Since his action turn is usually heal+command/masterstroke,I never think it happened before in the campaign. But reading my writeup, it might actually be the case that i double-used the command on Fenn in the last fight. If so, thats not really...great. But, lets say it compensates for the lacking at-st.

The threat is indeed a mistake, which we didnt realise. Thanks for highlighting that! Can´t say those 3 threat made any difference though.

He did activate the estorms one by one and blocked los from jynn as well as he could, problem is she moves when fired upon, thus making it difficult to avoid the later quickdraw. Picking her as the target for those attacks may however not have been brilliant (since she could peacemaker, move, then positon for quickdraw). Or do you mean we misunderstood something else?

And yes, I´m aware the team is great, and generally speaking (as a rebel player), i think most scenarios are just too damn hard on rebels. I believe the IMP-player in our campaign made a lot more mistakes, I had pumped up team etc, and still its 50/50 victory outcome on the maps. Winning this scenario with another lineup, having lost more scenarios beforehand, seems quite impossible.





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Hungry Hippo
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Thanks for the great responses! Unfortunately this is what I was afraid of. I'm lacking giant blast damage and extra attacks. My imperial player has teched hard against my team with abilities to cancel surges and dodges. Would you say that killing the royal guards is priority 1 off the bat, or getting through a door to spawn Weiss
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Rico P
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It varies a lot, depending on your hero combination/weapon/class cards and Imperial class deck

For example, when I last played it was Military Might vs. Fenn + Gideon + Gaarkhan + Jyn (Note I banned Fenn+Diala+Gideon combo, I told my players they can take 2/3 but not 3/3). My RGs died pretty fast but Gideon got wounded before they even opened the door, Jyn went down to eStorm's fire (round 2). Weiss v.1 died in Round 3 but Rebels never even made it outside the big hangar since there's always like an endless amount of troopers shooting at them every round

It all depends on your Rebel/Imp strategy. Military Might you want to watch out for troopers - MM turns them from cannon fodder into stupidly amazing death squads: 4-dice attacks with focused eJets anyone? SubTac you can shoot away since it lacks troop protections but SubTac gets better as round goes on (smacking you with strain to slow you down)...
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Hungry Hippo
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Update: played the mission, lost pathetically. Imperial player forgot to place two of the doors on setup, and forgot to place the stormtroopers that spawn with Weiss the first time. And yet, Vinto was wounded before the door to the hanger opened, the rebel "reinforcement" was perma-stunned by the new royal guards, and by the time I got outside he had spawned many groups back in the hangar to give Weiss many uninterrupted activations once he spawned the second time. He wiped my party with activations to spare.

My party: Vinto, Onar, Shyla, Diala. I had the best weapons in the game. Imperial player was using precision training deck from Hoth. Given that I had 8 rounds, and I lost on round 4, I wonder if maybe I ran too fast to the clearing. Then again, since I knew what was coming I ended round 3 with my 3 uninjured heroes adjacent to the clearing. I attacked Weiss 5 times round 4, plus remote detonators and snap kick, for a total of 13 damage. He then proceeded to wound each of my remaining heroes with Weiss. Not super sure how a win is feasible here if the IP is remotely competent. Any thoughts?
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Tomer Mlynarsky
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gperson2 wrote:
Would you say that killing the royal guards is priority 1 off the bat, or getting through a door to spawn Weiss


Depends on the situation and how the campaign faired. In my campaign, both would have been horrible mistakes.


I had military might and players (stupidly) allowed me to have Imperial Industry (They chose to do the mission that simply let you look twice at crates... WTF?!? I told them it's not a good idea, they insisted, they paid for it... Okay, rant over!)



Anyhow, I had Assault Armor, Shock Troopers (Storm Troopers get extra lightning if they attack in close range) and Imperial Industry attached to the elite storm troopers who start quite close to the heroes. Between that and the once per round free Focus and the level 3 upgrade (forgot name, gives you another attack but stuns the unit) I had a team of elite storm troopers that could produce like 25 damage on average that was right next to the heroes.

If you think those royal guards are nasty... You haven't seen these guys in action yet. You can pretty much guarantee you wound a guy every single round (let alone kill outright if he's wounded) - every single round.

Who cares about Royal Guards in that situation?



The point is, it really depends on what the players have and what the empire has.

I don't recall how many rounds they had left, but they pretty much surrendered once the last boss showed up. I already killed Fenn
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I hate killing heroes where they can't do anything but just look and be bored the rest of the session, but since I could give him control over the AT-ST it was okay.
and think I wounded 2 more at that point.

When the boss showed up with his backup, the players pretty much knew it was over and they'll be wounded regardless of rounds.




And while it may seem like I'm being op here against them - I really wasn't. I didn't bother summoning stuff half the time (technically, I'm saving threat, sure but I wasn't going to spend it on purpose) I let them have a choice on what happens with
Spoiler (click to reveal)
doors being locked again, I changed the story saying that they managed to hack them and have a free choice here


Heck, I even summoned very weak units next to Diala (knowing they said they were going to use Sarlaac anyway and she'd kill them).
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