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Subject: Gaming etiquette rss

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Steve Pole

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Do you and your gaming partner(s) have a code of conduct which applies for all games? For example, do both of you take time to familiarise yourselves with the rules before commencing a new game, or just one of you who explains the rules to the other as you go along; are you permitted to change a move if the realisation that it was dumb dawns before your opponent begins his/her turn; if, midway through a game, you realise that a rule is being misinterpreted, do you carrying on playing with your mistaken interpretation or change to the correct one; and, so on.
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Rosecrans man
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We always try to play according to the rules as written (RAW). If we play incorrectly and catch it soon enough, without the rule being broken more than a time or two, we note the correct interpretation and play accordingly from that point on. If the mistakes were significant enough by amount of occurrences and with several different rules being violated then we re-start the game if we have enough time for that sitting.

Then after the game, we take wire brushes out and beat ourselves silly over our mistakes. (Jk on this paragraph).
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Even in games I know really well my fellow gamers and I will make mistakes or forget a rule. We just move on.

This is the one capital T truth: There's nothing at stake.

We are all of us here for a brief time on this pale blue dot, and making a mistake or misinterpreting a rule is just sometimes part of the experience. We can all strive to do our best, but that's all that we can ask of our fellow players.



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Ryan Witmer
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Rubenpup wrote:
if, midway through a game, you realise that a rule is being misinterpreted, do you carrying on playing with your mistaken interpretation or change to the correct one; and, so on.


This depends very much on the importance of the rule in question. If it's a little detail rule, we fix it right away, if it's something much larger, we usually agree to keep playing the wrong way for the remainder of the current game. Sometimes we fix the major rule, but throw the offended parties a bone to even things out.

We tend to play big multi-session monsters, so that impacts the decision as well. When you discover a major rule mistake a month into a game, it's often best to just keep playing that way.
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Joeseph McCarthy
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Gaming honesty is everything. Opponents must have absolute trust in each other.

And rules lawyers, or people who game rules to win, are ritually sacrificed and the severed parts burned in a garbage dump.

Mogadeet
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Since I mostly play solo, I sometimes intentionally ignore or modify a rule to suit me.
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Sébastien Schmutz
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As I am the most addicted to games, I read the rules, watch videos and teach the rules to my friends as best as I can. Then as we play, if there is something wrong, we just continue and apply the correct rules afterwards. We always take one or two plays before we go "for real". We like to win, but I've never seen someone cheating and I would be very surprised that someone does.
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Wendell
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Si non potes reperire Berolini in tabula, ludens essetis non WIF.
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leroy43 wrote:


This is the one capital T truth: There's nothing at stake.




Spoiler (click to reveal)
Actually, you might be right...
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Eddy Sterckx
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Rubenpup wrote:
Do you and your gaming partner(s) have a code of conduct which applies for all games? For example, do both of you take time to familiarise yourselves with the rules before commencing a new game, or just one of you who explains the rules to the other as you go along;


Depends on the game and the opponents. I've usually read the rules, but can be a bit foggy about the little rules and exceptions. It's a rare game where I don't have to do a quick lookup during the game about one rule or other. Some opponents do a better job at reading the rules than me, some not - but this is not something that bugs me - not everyone has the time for this with kids, wife and work-stuff taking priority.

Rubenpup wrote:

are you permitted to change a move if the realisation that it was dumb dawns before your opponent begins his/her turn;


Of course - we're there to enjoy ourselves by playing a game, not by playing rules lawyer.


Rubenpup wrote:

if, midway through a game, you realise that a rule is being misinterpreted, do you carrying on playing with your mistaken interpretation or change to the correct one; and, so on.


What's done is done, but upon finding out we usually tend to play correctly for the rest of the game. If you don't the incorrect way gets ingrained and that's not good.
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Tim K
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lucky henry wrote:
Since I mostly play solo, I sometimes intentionally ignore or modify a rule to suit me.


I like to do that, too, in solo games. Unfortunately, the other side usually disagrees and insists on RAW.
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Juan Valdez
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Rubenpup wrote:
Do you and your gaming partner(s) have a code of conduct which applies for all games? For example, do both of you take time to familiarise yourselves with the rules before commencing a new game, or just one of you who explains the rules to the other as you go along; are you permitted to change a move if the realisation that it was dumb dawns before your opponent begins his/her turn; if, midway through a game, you realise that a rule is being misinterpreted, do you carrying on playing with your mistaken interpretation or change to the correct one; and, so on.



With my usual Vietnam game opponent, we carry on pretty much no matter what. Generally we're learning the rules as we go: set up the game and start through the turn sequence. We almost never "back up" to "get it right." However, as we learn the rules, we follow them best we understand then as written. This means we can get the gist of most games in a single session, and we'll follow up in more detail when/if we replay. The important thing for both of us is to keep the game moving along smartly.

My usual OCS opponent has a lot more AP, which I put up with as he's more concerned with getting the rules correct before deciding a strategy. I also use that time to read rules and plan my own moves. Or fix lunch, or whatever. This AP occasionally helps him win big, but not always. And occasionally I'll remind him "you know, you've been in movement phase over two hours now..." which usually precipitates action.

We don't try to rewind or correct moves, we just plow ahead and do better the next turn.





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Craig Truesdell
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Some of the things I have seen through the years...

reviewing all of the possible moves and counter moves, reviewing all of the charts, counting all of the factors and modifiers, looking for that perfect move every turn to the point of making for a SLOW zombie game... If that isn't your thing, may want to say something at the start...

If you have been playing that game for a while, the move is moved when you take your hand off. If it's a new game, the more experienced player hopefully points out why that may not be the best move or helps you understand the alternatives...

I do expect people to at least glance at the rules nowadays since most are available for free and I would expect the more experienced player to point out the key aspects and zingers of a new game. Mistakes will made however..

Not to freak out if I touch their dice, usually an rpg thing but...

playing the whole game especially games where one side has to take a butt whipping right the start like The Russian Campaign (fourth and fifth editions). Don't go for broke and then just quit if your risky strategy fails..

Be willing to take any side or at least alternate... sorry, you can't always be the thimble..

Do not cry when your carriers are caught and sunk in the Hawaiian Islands on the first turn in Victory in the Pacific, well try not to..cry

play your buddies new game even if it is your turn to pick a game...

be up front about any time constraints...

don't consume to excess unless you are truly playing a beer and pretzels game unless both parties are doing it...

limit swearing unless the Hood blows up in Bismarck (second edition) and not even then when young ones are about..arrrh nobody likes a potty mouth...

Agree on optional rules at the start, do not snicker if someone insists on playing the "basic" rules...

Help clean up after the game is over, sorting counters as needed etc.

Do freak out when someone brings a game with sorted counters in a custom case with their corners all perfectly clipped, you will probably lose...

Do not constantly complain about the freaking dice, just don't, maybe just maybe I actually had a good strategy, that being said, if your buddy has had a bit of bad luck, OK to say so to help them through it. It will add to their misery actually...devil

Be nice to any family or pets about, that being said, not everyone is a dog or cat person...

use a coaster...

Do add sound effects when you troops are really rolling....oh yeah!!!

Do not constantly talk about some monster game you played for 2 weeks straight back in college and only got through turn 2. 10 times should be enough.

Do not get sucked into that Squad Leader/ASL debate until after the game is over...

When I start winning, do not point out how "unrealistic" the game is all the sudden...
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Daniel Blumentritt
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One rule we abide by is that "if anything is incorrect about a dice roll, the entire thing gets re-rolled, no matter who that favors". It's a bit weird when someone rolls too few dice to re-roll and not just roll extras, but it covers a lot of odd situations consistently, and it eliminates the "I rolled too many dice but got too few hits, so my opponent kind of doesn't want me to re-roll, so what should I offer that looks fair" dance. There's literally never any time wasted or confusion over accidentally missrolls, ever.

Quote:
Do not constantly complain about the freaking dice, just don't, maybe just maybe I actually had a good strategy, that being said, if your buddy has had a bit of bad luck, OK to say so to help them through it. It will add to their misery actually...


My problem is people complaining about dice/card/etc luck who clearly don't have a good grasp of what the actual odds were, or who could have improved their odds with some better planning.

Rolling 16 dice and getting 4 hits in Here I Stand is only 1 hit less than the most common result, yet many people will sigh and huff at the outcome. Or they'll get annoyed at how incredibly lucky their opponent is when Eck fails to burn a 1-value uncommitted debater, even though the most likely result is insufficient for burning/

Or in, say, Twilight Struggle, someone will say "Man, you got Red Scare/Purge TWICE already and I haven't gotten it at all!" as if this is some incredibly unlucky or unlikely possibility.

Or once in The Russian Campaign I had an opponent fight a key battle in the 2nd impulse at 4-1 while using other nearby units to help make a couple of other less-important 3-1 attacks. He rolled a 1 and got a Contact which left some units exposed to nasty counterattacks, and he got pissy about his luck. I pointed out that he made a choice to leave that open and prioritized making sure the other attacks happened over prioritizing making the key space a sure thing (he could have gotten 6-1), and that if 4-1 were a sure thing then the whole game would be different.

Another thing many people miss is that if EVERY single step needs to work out, most plans are less likely to succeed than they perceive. In Victory in the Pacific, if you try to remove one 127 patroller with a 453 BB, it'll work 73% of the time. If you need to remove three 127 patrollers with three 453 battleships, you'll only succeed 39% of the time; but because the individual roll that fails is 73%, the person will probably say their luck was rotten.
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Jeffrey D Myers
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From the ASL tome:

A.2 ERRORS: All results stand once play has progressed past the point of commission. In other words, if an error is discovered after play has passed that point, the game cannot be backed up to correct the error, even if such error is in violation of a rule....

In practice in my groups, if the error (or forgotten item) can be corrected relatively easily, then that is done.
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Craig Truesdell
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all die must be on the table and lie flat to count
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Saxon 357
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ctcharger wrote:
[b]
Do not cry when your carriers are caught and sunk in the Hawaiian Islands on the first turn in Victory in the Pacific, well try not to..cry


I remember this ruining my Whole Week angry
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Robert Stuart
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Not a code of conduct as much as a principle for all games I've played since my 21st birthday: friendship is more important than winning. That doesn't mean I haven't been 'ruthless' in a gaming sense, but only as ruthless as my opponent would allow without it leading to estrangement.
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Craig Truesdell
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saxon357 wrote:
ctcharger wrote:
[b]
Do not cry when your carriers are caught and sunk in the Hawaiian Islands on the first turn in Victory in the Pacific, well try not to..cry


I remember this ruining my Whole Week angry


I threw the die against the garage wall and got in my car and left. My gaming buddy thought it was hilarious. I was much younger then, pretty sure I could handle it today. whistle
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Alexandre Santos
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The following are a consensus in my gaming group:

- decide what to play before game night

- anyone can veto a game suggestion

- in the case of a new game, someone (usually the owner) MUST read the rules beforehand

- if we realise in the middle of the game that a rule was misunderstood, and that it significantly changes the balance of the game, we just carry on (which leads to some incredibly lopsided plays, once in a while)

- keep your AP under control: play should be as smooth as possible. Have the patience to allow for experience to enhance your play, instead of raking up AP (I'm usually the worst offender in my gaming group shake)

What I would like to have as a consensus

- Don't take back moves once you touch the pieces (or at least don't do it two-three times every frigging turn cry). I always let it go, but I must admit that it bugs me.

- Don't take game events too personnally (this often restricts us to low conflict games)

- Be there on time ! (once I took a day out of work to play, and one of the players only showed up in the afternoon shake )

There is one thing I'm not really very clear on:
- pointing why one player's move is terrible, or if there is a better move. In more general terms, discussing about the gaming situation

I like to learn by myself, and because of that I usually resent advice and tend not to give it. But perhaps I'm wrong and this stances makes for a very dry mood?

Of course, this does not apply to games where negociation, scheming and betrayal are part of the experience.
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Craig Truesdell
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If I were new to a game and you had a lot of experience with it, I would expect you to save me from obvious mistakes. You can cover the zingers at the start which may help. After a while though, they are in their own if they are comfortable with the game.

Be on time, that's a good one. Took a whole day and they didn't arrive until the afternoon?!? I would have been livid.

Have the game setup if at all possible before people arrive.
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J.D. Hall
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Good stuff in here. My only addition is something my main fellow gamers (two guys who go back to sixth grade with me, and are as big of military history buffs as I am) came up with early on: eat together beforehand and/or during. At first we'd raid the fridge of whoever's house we were in. Later, when we got our own apartments, we get pizza or Chinese takeout, or even cook something. Plus beer and pot (you kids call it weed these days). Then I start playing and soon DM'ing AD&D sessions. Eventually, I had eight players in two groups -- multi-gender, multi-racial groups. So we grafted the food thing on to that, with the caveat it had to be cooked wherever we were playing. One guy always grilled, and we had a blast standing on a snow-covered porch watching him grill pork chops while we swilled cold beer.

These days, I'm back to my two oldest friends, and we play at least twice a month. These days, the food is healthier, the drink is wine, and the only thing smoking hot is our wives. But we're still playing.

And that's the point from above I think we all need to remember: it's supposed to be fun with your friends. Once you make that an ironclad rule, the rest of it seems to go much more smoothly.
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Mark Helton
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Rubenpup wrote:
Do you and your gaming partner(s) have a code of conduct which applies for all games?
(For example, do both of you take time to familiarise yourselves with the rules before commencing a new game, or just one of you who explains the rules to the other as you go along; are you permitted to change a move if the realisation that it was dumb dawns before your opponent begins his/her turn; if, midway through a game, you realise that a rule is being misinterpreted, do you carrying on playing with your mistaken interpretation or change to the correct one; and, so on.)


It depends on the game.
The more complicated it is, the more the owner of the game, (usually me), has to explain the game to my opponent(s).
However, I usually try to find a "How to play" video, and have the other player(s) watch that before we play, so they are somewhat familiar with the concepts I will be showing them.
This is exactly what I did last weekend when I played Star Wars: Rebellion with my brother-in-law. (Great Game, BTW!)

As far as finding out about a rule that was applied incorrectly, depending on the rule, (minor or major), we will either start enforcing it mid-game, (if it has been used by all players, and hence everyone benefited), or if only one person benefited, then we will typically carry on with the wrong rule, until the next game.

My two cents worth.


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Donato Lacerenza
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Gaming etiquette I follow:

Be prepared to play the game. No one expects you to be an expert but at least read through the rules as best you can.

If you realize you have been playing incorrectly just move on and play correctly going forward. It takes at least two plays to get a real feel for most games.

Remember you are a guest at a persons house. Be respectful to them, their family and property.

Don't be a rules lawyer.

Don't be a poor loser or winner.

If a die rolls off the table re-roll it. Better yet use a dice tower.

To me it is all about having fun and playing the game.



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Tim K
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AlexFS wrote:
There is one thing I'm not really very clear on:
- pointing why one player's move is terrible, or if there is a better move. In more general terms, discussing about the gaming situation

I like to learn by myself, and because of that I usually resent advice and tend not to give it. But perhaps I'm wrong and this stances makes for a very dry mood?


I agree about unwanted advice, Alex, but my reaction is different. I rarely read strategy articles, although I occasionally post them. A major satisfaction I get out of gaming is trying things I've come up with on my own and seeing them work. I have been known to cut people off when they are offering unsolicited advice.

Where we differ is I consider myself generous with tips. However, I try always to ask first if advice is welcome. Then I usually apply my abundant training, teaching and tutoring experience. By that I mean I use the Socratic method of leading my audience to the insight instead of just telling them. Example, in the context of improving one's defensive setup in No Retreat North Africa: "I suggest rereading the rules for minefields and Advance After Combat before deploying your defenders." {Unsaid is that units may not do a second hex of advance adjacent to a minefield, so one should consider deploying minefields at intervals along the major supply routes to create a lot more work for the player that started an offensive. I think inexperienced NRNA players forward deploy minefields for their defensive benefits without realizing their additional usefulness.)
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Craig Truesdell
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Good thought on watching a good video before playing, that would help for sure.

Getting your heads together food wise is smart too.

Rolling the die in such a way to purposely knock pieces around is usually considered poor form.
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