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Subject: Incorrect canals rss

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Dave Platt
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I'm Bolton born and bred and the canals on the map are incorrect. There is no direct waterway between Bury and Manchester. There is or rather was a Bolton and Bury Canal and it had a spur about halfway along it that lead down a flight of locks and onto Manchester.
This may seem like nit-picking to some but there was some monumental work done on that canal in order to overcome some difficult terrain and I think it's somewhat insulting that the designer of this game couldn't be bothered to do his homework.
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Phil Campeau
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Dave P wrote:
I'm Bolton born and bred and the canals on the map are incorrect. There is no direct waterway between Bury and Manchester. There is or rather was a Bolton and Bury Canal and it had a spur about halfway along it that lead down a flight of locks and onto Manchester.
This may seem like nit-picking to some but there was some monumental work done on that canal in order to overcome some difficult terrain and I think it's somewhat insulting that the designer of this game couldn't be bothered to do his homework.


I may be wrong, but Wikipedia seems to disagree with you:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Bolton_%26_Bury_C...
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Jeff Michaud
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Dave P wrote:
... I think it's somewhat insulting that the designer of this game couldn't be bothered to do his homework.

as pointed out in 1st reply Martin Wallace does do his homework....

... however this is just a "game" and not being marketed as some kind of historically accurate game. There are tons of games who have some form of geographic map on the game board which are not geographically accurate... Ticket to Ride, several of the Power Grid maps, and so on. You are in the wrong hobby if you are easily insulted by a board game... imho ymmv
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Dave Platt
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philcampeau wrote:
Dave P wrote:
I'm Bolton born and bred and the canals on the map are incorrect. There is no direct waterway between Bury and Manchester. There is or rather was a Bolton and Bury Canal and it had a spur about halfway along it that lead down a flight of locks and onto Manchester.
This may seem like nit-picking to some but there was some monumental work done on that canal in order to overcome some difficult terrain and I think it's somewhat insulting that the designer of this game couldn't be bothered to do his homework.


I may be wrong, but Wikipedia seems to disagree with you:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Bolton_%26_Bury_C...


No it doesn't. Take a look at the map on that article and you'll find that Bolton and Bury do not have separate canals to Manchester. The place where the Bolton and Bury stretch joins the Manchester leg is 10 minutes walk from where I grew up, I spent a huge part of my childhood playing on that disused canal, I've lived in the locality for over 50 years and still do. I know that part of the canal system like the back of my hand.
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Dave Platt
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JeffyJeff wrote:
Dave P wrote:
... I think it's somewhat insulting that the designer of this game couldn't be bothered to do his homework.

as pointed out in 1st reply Martin Wallace does do his homework


As pointed out above, he's not done his homework on this occasion.
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Chris
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Dave P wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
Dave P wrote:
... I think it's somewhat insulting that the designer of this game couldn't be bothered to do his homework.

as pointed out in 1st reply Martin Wallace does do his homework


As pointed out above, he's not done his homework on this occasion.


So you're picking holes in a game design over a decade ago.. what are you hoping to achieve? Martin did do his homework, then he designed a game based on that knowledge. Your life is not negatively affected from a canal being invented in a game.
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Denizen of the Island of Doctor Morose
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Dave P wrote:
I'm Bolton born and bred and the canals on the map are incorrect. There is no direct waterway between Bury and Manchester. There is or rather was a Bolton and Bury Canal and it had a spur about halfway along it that lead down a flight of locks and onto Manchester.
This may seem like nit-picking to some but there was some monumental work done on that canal in order to overcome some difficult terrain and I think it's somewhat insulting that the designer of this game couldn't be bothered to do his homework.


A minor issue given that given that Warrington is wehere Widnes should be; north Cheshire has been subsumed into Ceremonial Lancashire; the two player board has the Lancaster Canal going through the Lake District, Solway Firth and the Southern Highlands before fetching up in Glasgow (some 150 miles by road). The map is inaccurate but there again the game works. The game is an abstraction, not a historical simulation. As a Mancunian and history teacher I am sure Martin Wallace knew all this, having done his homework, before it all went to press.
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James Clarke
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Nob end.
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Chris
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Highland Cow wrote:

Nob end.
Want the thread to be locked? I'll give you a tip. Best not breach the rules and instead reserve some comments.
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James Clarke
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
Highland Cow wrote:

Nob end.
Want the thread to be locked? I'll give you a tip. Best not breach the rules and instead reserve some comments.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nob_End


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Chris
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Highland Cow wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
Highland Cow wrote:

Nob end.
Want the thread to be locked? I'll give you a tip. Best not breach the rules and instead reserve some comments.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nob_End


Where do you think I got Lock, Breach, Reserve and Tip from?
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James Clarke
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
Highland Cow wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
Highland Cow wrote:

Nob end.
Want the thread to be locked? I'll give you a tip. Best not breach the rules and instead reserve some comments.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nob_End


Where do you think I got Lock, Breach, Reserve and Tip from?

I assumed you just barged in
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The game shows emplacement for available spot where canals can be built.
It does not exist until it is actually built by someone.

I have seen many game in which, as in real life apparently, it was not.
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Andi Hub
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Dave P wrote:
I'm Bolton born and bred and the canals on the map are incorrect. There is no direct waterway between Bury and Manchester. There is or rather was a Bolton and Bury Canal and it had a spur about halfway along it that lead down a flight of locks and onto Manchester.
This may seem like nit-picking to some but there was some monumental work done on that canal in order to overcome some difficult terrain and I think it's somewhat insulting that the designer of this game couldn't be bothered to do his homework.

When you start the game, there are no canals. Only connections on which you may build canals. If there is an additional connection, on which historically there was no canal, just see this as an opportunity in which you may deviate from reality. No ill intent and no need to be insulted.
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Paul Carlson
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How about Notlob then?


TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
Highland Cow wrote:

Nob end.
Want the thread to be locked? I'll give you a tip. Best not breach the rules and instead reserve some comments.
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Chris
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pdcarlson wrote:
How about Notlob then?


Is that a pun?
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JeffyJeff wrote:
[q="Dave P"]... I think it's somewhat insulting that the designer of this game couldn't be bothered to do his homework.



WHAT!??!? London didn't use Tiddlywinks as currency? And the canals got all destroyed just before rail age?
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Phil Campeau
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tequila_j wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
[q="Dave P"]... I think it's somewhat insulting that the designer of this game couldn't be bothered to do his homework.



WHAT!??!? London didn't use Tiddlywinks as currency? And the canals got all destroyed just before rail age?


Thematically, the canals aren't destroyed in Brass. They've just reached capacity by the second era, so you need to move over to rails. It's actually pretty much historically accurate in that respect.
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Chris
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philcampeau wrote:
tequila_j wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
[q="Dave P"]... I think it's somewhat insulting that the designer of this game couldn't be bothered to do his homework.



WHAT!??!? London didn't use Tiddlywinks as currency? And the canals got all destroyed just before rail age?


Thematically, the canals aren't destroyed in Brass. They've just reached capacity by the second era, so you need to move over to rails. It's actually pretty much historically accurate in that respect.

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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
pdcarlson wrote:
How about Notlob then?


Is that a pun?


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Dave Platt
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Yeah, I guess it's not really that important. Also leaves the way open for someone to design a more accurate depiction of Lancashire during the industrial revolution too.
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matt tolman
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The canals on the board don't represent where each and every real canal was built, just like the industry spaces don't represent where each and every industry was built. Think of it like we are "resetting" history, and, within the confines of a balanced game, players build things as they see fit.

A direct historical simulation wouldn't even be a game, it would be an activity.
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James Clarke
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Dave P wrote:
Also leaves the way open for someone to design a more accurate depiction of Lancashire during the industrial revolution too.


A Nob End expansion, anyone?

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Dave P wrote:
Yeah, I guess it's not really that important. Also leaves the way open for someone to design a more accurate depiction of Lancashire during the industrial revolution too.
Certainly an underrepresented theme and obviously with enthusiastic fans. (no sarcasm intended)
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Dave Platt
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Highland Cow wrote:
Dave P wrote:
Also leaves the way open for someone to design a more accurate depiction of Lancashire during the industrial revolution too.


A Nob End expansion, anyone?



Oh please stop it, you're cracking me up. It brings back memories of the first time I heard that place name used in jest 50 years ago.

BTW. The pub close by was called the Nob Inn.
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