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Subject: Is there a maximum possible score and/or best possible tableau for Targi? rss

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Nate Meyer
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So, I've been playing Targi on Yucata for a while now and love it. The other day I was playing and realized that the top score I have seen in the game is 40 points. This caused me to wonder, what is the maximum score for the game? I mean, what if you got the best luck possible: always getting double goods, always being able to maximize card interactions (like a full row of camels that ends with the extra bonus if at the end card AND the card where you get a bonus for having camel cards in another full row), and being able to visit the silversmith each time to just use up any unnecessary goods or gold while never having to partly-squander a turn on Fata Morgana, the noble space, or to trade goods for gold. There must be a theoretical top score that one could get and maybe even a single "best" possible tableau placement scheme that maximizes card interactions better than any other combinations of cards...right? Has anyone figured this out?
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Eric Ziegeweid
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If you look through the forums, there is a post by the designer celebrating a 58. As far as I know this is the all-time actual highest. I'm not sure what the theoretical highest score would be. My own high score (I've been playing for about 3 weeks) is 43, and that included 16 points from my tableau at game end.
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Eric Ziegeweid
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Complete rows with all cards of a different type: Earns 8

Complete rows with all cards of the same type: Earns 4

Tribe advantage: Earns 1 (10 cards or more in the player's display)

Tribe advantage: Earns 2 (card placed on the right most space of a complete row)

Tribe advantage: Earns 1 (more Tribe cards than opponent)

Obviously, there is room for a few more point cards for specific tribes... I may play around with my IRL deck tonight and see if I can figure out this puzzle
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Matt Hindmarch
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42 is our game play high. Sure it can go higher than that.
 
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Byron S
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My personal best on BoardGameArena is 47. Most games are in the mid-high 30s.
 
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Odysseus X
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Interesting question. I'm gonna give the cards a thorough look through. I'm gonna assume the other player does NOTHING to stop ideal plays. The tricky part would be the silversmith portion. It seems like getting the double goods cards early would help.

I like this idea. I think I might have some fun figuring out what the best score is. I'll report back sometime in the future.
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Nate Meyer
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Thanks for looking into this. My inclination to solve this is to first find the best possible tableau. Then figure out the minimum number of goods and gold to create this tableau. Figure out the max gold and goods a player could get from cards alone in a game (assuming you get or pull gold and double goods from the deck whenever you need them if they are still in the deck). If there's a difference in max gold from cards and pulled from the deck, then add 3 goods for every gold you need to your minimum goods number. Whatever your surpluses are (goods or gold) above the minimum needed to make the tableau could then be converted at the Silversmith x the number or rounds you would play to fill a tableau if you always got gold and double goods. The answer should be the highest score possible?

.....But I'm an English teacher and so I am SURE that there is a better way to figure this out.

I'd take a crack at it, but my only access to the game is digitally.
 
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Eric Ziegeweid
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OK, here's what I've got. Apologies for the subpar images, just threw this together after work.

First attempt: All the 1 point game end bonuses, 4 of a kind x3, 2 points for camel riders, 2 points for tents, 2 points rightmost card. 25 crosses + 20 final VP = 45.

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Eric Ziegeweid
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2nd attempt: This is the most I was able to get in final VP, but it came at the cost of lower total crosses. 21 crosses + 21 final VP = 42

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Eric Ziegeweid
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3rd attempt: All the 3 cross cards, with the Targia that makes 4 different worth as much as 4 of a kind, plus the rightmost bonus card. 33 crosses + 12 final VP = 45.

o
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Eric Ziegeweid
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4th attempt, and the best I was able to come up with. Similar to the last, but with one 3 cross card sacrificed to include a 2 cross camel rider and complete a four of a kind row to go with the Targia's 2 "all different" rows. 32 crosses + 14 final VP = 46.

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Eric Ziegeweid
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I went back and looked at the forum post about highest recorded score - it's actually 52, not 58 as I misremembered. Pulling a VP in game and using the Silversmith multiple times would be needed to get there.

Unless someone else can do better with the tableau?

The more complicated analysis would be whether it is mathematically possible to achieve the final tableaus I've depicted here (as Nate indicates above). Scoring well in Targi normally requires getting some of the other cards that aren't in these tableau: the cards that give immediate goods and/or gold, the "ignore raid cards", the extra good cards and the gold holder.

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Byron S
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reynard wrote:
I went back and looked at the forum post about highest recorded score - it's actually 52, not 58 as I misremembered. Pulling a VP in game and using the Silversmith multiple times would be needed to get there.

Unless someone else can do better with the tableau?

The more complicated analysis would be whether it is mathematically possible to achieve the final tableaus I've depicted here. Scoring well in Targi normally requires getting some of the other cards that aren't in these tableau: the cards that give immediate goods and/or gold, the "ignore raid cards", the extra good cards and the gold holder.


Don't forget you start with 4 VP. That makes you close to the 52 with your 45+4=49 VP tableau.
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Eric Ziegeweid
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Quote:
Don't forget you start with 4 VP. That makes you close to the 52 with your 45+4=49 VP tableau.


Ah, you're right! Good point
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Nate Meyer
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Excellent work Eric, thanks for taking the time to do it! I looked at the board online and figured that if you use the Silversmith every turn and managed to both have 2 gold each turn (not sure if this is possible) and get the card that allows you to place a meeple in the space with the robber, you could theoretically get 48 points (4 x 12 turns) + 4 starting points for 52 points. But if that is even possible, it would take CRAZY luck. I'm impressed that anyone scored 58, that's some excellent luck and skill.
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Andy Steiger
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Hey Folks

thanks for this very interesting and compelling thread. Thanks for all the thought, work and effort you put into it to find the highes possible score.
Yes the highes comfirmed score I know of is 52 on BGA.
The person who achived this was the number one Targi player on BGA and then callenged me to a match, which he won by one point. It was a thrilling game.
My personal best score, in the many games I played, was 49 point. That included three rows with cards of the same kind and a lot of cards that give bonus points at the end of the game, but none or very few trades with the silversmith (which I do very rarly at all).

If You beat my score of 49 in a real game, let me know and I will send a little gift to You

Greetings from Germany and thanks for this great thread
Andy

PS: take the expansion into equation and you will get crazy doing the math
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Eric Ziegeweid
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STOCKBROT wrote:
Hey Folks

thanks for this very interesting and compelling thread. Thanks for all the thought, work and effort you put into it to find the highes possible score.
Yes the highes comfirmed score I know of is 52 on BGA.
The person who achived this was the number one Targi player on BGA and then callenged me to a match, which he won by one point. It was a thrilling game.
My personal best score, in the many games I played, was 49 point. That included three rows with cards of the same kind and a lot of cards that give bonus points at the end of the game, but none or very few trades with the silversmith (which I do very rarly at all).

If You beat my score of 49 in a real game, let me know and I will send a little gift to You

Greetings from Germany and thanks for this great thread
Andy

PS: take the expansion into equation and you will get crazy doing the math


Thanks for weighing in, Andy! I have the expansion and I'm looking forward to playing it. It's just that... I don't think I've mastered the base game yet
 
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Eric Ziegeweid
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STOCKBROT wrote:

PS: take the expansion into equation and you will get crazy doing the math


Just as an aside, have Kosmos license the expansion to BGA at some point. I really love playing Targi there
 
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Andy Steiger
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reynard wrote:
STOCKBROT wrote:

PS: take the expansion into equation and you will get crazy doing the math


Just as an aside, have Kosmos license the expansion to BGA at some point. I really love playing Targi there


Generally BGA decides which games they want to make and then ask the publisher for permission (the generally say yes). So it is not Kosmos decision in the first place but the decison of BGA.
So if you want to see the expansion there, ask them to do it
 
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Eric Ziegeweid
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STOCKBROT wrote:
reynard wrote:
STOCKBROT wrote:

PS: take the expansion into equation and you will get crazy doing the math


Just as an aside, have Kosmos license the expansion to BGA at some point. I really love playing Targi there


Generally BGA decides which games they want to make and then ask the publisher for permission (the generally say yes). So it is not Kosmos decision in the first place but the decison of BGA.
So if you want to see the expansion there, aks them to do it


Ooh, I will!
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Eric Ziegeweid
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STOCKBROT wrote:

My personal best score, in the many games I played, was 49 point. That included three rows with cards of the same kind and a lot of cards that give bonus points at the end of the game, but none or very few trades with the silversmith (which I do very rarly at all).

If You beat my score of 49 in a real game, let me know and I will send a little gift to You


HEY! I just wanted to share my best game ever - 51! One off the all-time high! I did it in a very un-stockbrot playing style, though: 12 points from the Silversmith

It also must be said that my opponent was much lower-rated than I am... this game was part of a weekly tournament.











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Andy Steiger
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reynard wrote:
STOCKBROT wrote:

My personal best score, in the many games I played, was 49 point. That included three rows with cards of the same kind and a lot of cards that give bonus points at the end of the game, but none or very few trades with the silversmith (which I do very rarly at all).

If You beat my score of 49 in a real game, let me know and I will send a little gift to You


HEY! I just wanted to share my best game ever - 51! One off the all-time high! I did it in a very un-stockbrot playing style, though: 12 points from the Silversmith

It also must be said that my opponent was much lower-rated than I am... this game was part of a weekly tournament.













Hey, hey congratulations for beating my personal hifh score. That is very impressive. Well done Eric, I applaude you!
As promised I will send you something. Please check your inbox!
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Eric Ziegeweid
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Thanks very much, Andy!
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Hamza Wahid
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Found it really interesting to see that the highest score known for this game is 52. I just discovered this game today and I scored 51 points on my second ever play. I was very pleased with it at the time but didn't realise quite how good a score it was. To be honest, I did have an incredible game: was lucky enough to get the full 12 points from having 3 complete sets and got the camel rider that gives +2 points for being at the end, as well as +2 points from the card that gives points from tents. To be fair, my opponent was also very new to the game.

Anyway, I really enjoyed this wonderful game and very glad I discovered it. It's definitely on my wishlist and looking forward to hopefully many more plays. I'm just really impressed with how quickly it flows all the while managing to maintain a decent amount of depth. The decisions every turn feel impactful, but not stressful which is such a hard balance to hit but this game does it perfectly.
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Eric Ziegeweid
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Hey, congrats! Welcome to the 50 point club

I think a common theme with high scores is an inexperienced opponent (and that's not to take away from your - or my - accomplishment). It's not apparent when you first start playing how critical blocking is.
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